Author Topic: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....  (Read 1827 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Roget

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #-1 on: June 23, 2017, 10:02:59 AM »
I did get it done.

My first batch ever.

I used an 8 lb. 2 oz. butt & ended up with 7 lbs. 6 oz. of finished product.
Seasoned  with 2 different Walton's fresh breakfast sausage seasonings. (two different batches)
Stuffed about 4.5 lbs. into collagen casings.





Formed the balance into patties.

I fried a test pattie of each batch & they both taste good.

I have a couple of concerns.
I can't get the links to stay twisted. I twist alternately as instructed but they come untwisted.
After they have been twisted, can I cut the links apart, or will the ends come loose & spill out?

My biggest concern is that I had a couple of blowouts. Am I overstuffing?
I did get more product into the casing than the package estimated, but they didn't look to be overstuffed.(V thought they looked overstuffed.)
They were pretty firm & when I twisted them they got more so.
Should I let the sausage stretch the casing as I stuff, or just fill the casing without stretching it?
This is something I definitely need to figure out before I try to smoke sausage. I certainly don't want to have it blowout in the smokehouse.  :( >:( :(

Any advice on this will certainly be appreciated.
Thanx in advance.



YCDBSOYA

GMG Davy Crockett
GMG Jim Bowie
Charbroil SRG
Charbroil BigEasy
Blackstone Pizza Oven
Blackstone Flat Top X 2 (36" & 28")
DBS w/Auberins dual probe PID
Anova Precision Sous Vide Cooker
Grand Hall 3 burner Grill w/rotisserie,smoke tray, & side burner

Offline nepas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2838
  • Ft Pierce Fl. Member #35
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« on: June 23, 2017, 10:31:03 AM »
Nothing at all wrong with your 1st time.

Collagen is tricky to stay twisted. I found that if you allow some space between links then twist it works better. Also you may have noticed that after stuffing the collagen the outer got kinda moist. Leave the twisted links at room temp for about 2 hours. This will allow the twist to get dry some
(dont worry your still safe) You can cut the collagen from the ends, leave about 1/2" collagen on each and, you can tuck it under.

Blowouts are from over stuffing and when you twist a full casing "POOFERS"

Stretching the collagen from the strand is up to you, some stuffer tubes are flared at the bell end and the casing will only go on so far. You did a good job on the links so it looks like you have it.

The big sausage makers can afford to buy tender bite collagen casings. I bought a caddy of them once at it was $290 a caddy (box)

Vac seal your unused casings and keep in fridge.


Looks good.
Flint
New Elder Wand with infa red tip.

Offline smoker pete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1974
    • Smokin' Pete's BBQ Blog
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 10:31:29 AM »
Not a sausage maker ... but a BIG sausage eater!  8)  Those look good to me ... Nice job on your first time out  :thumbup:
MAK 2 Star General - Serial # 2325
Instant Pot Pressure Cooker
Char Broil SRG

Offline DWard51

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 01:18:35 PM »
Looking pretty good for a first run indeed!!!!!

Yep, collagen casings can be tough to twist and keep twisted.  NEPAS is about the only person I've seen do it regularly with success (but we are talking about the man!).  I just cut mine and rack them flat to smoke.  No problems with heat spilling out.  But for linked sausage, I usually go with natural casings.  There is nothing wrong with collagen though and it's a lot more user friendly in prep and use than natural casings (especially bulk un-tubed ones).

Good job though!!!

Offline Pappymn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12342
Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 04:04:10 PM »
Looks like a great success


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Pappy

Proud Owner of Mak 2 Star General #1,000
Weber Performer
Blackstone SS Griddle
Member #109

Offline stalag

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 11:13:38 AM »
Nothing at all wrong with your 1st time.

Collagen is tricky to stay twisted. I found that if you allow some space between links then twist it works better. Also you may have noticed that after stuffing the collagen the outer got kinda moist. Leave the twisted links at room temp for about 2 hours. This will allow the twist to get dry some
(dont worry your still safe) You can cut the collagen from the ends, leave about 1/2" collagen on each and, you can tuck it under.

Blowouts are from over stuffing and when you twist a full casing "POOFERS"

Stretching the collagen from the strand is up to you, some stuffer tubes are flared at the bell end and the casing will only go on so far. You did a good job on the links so it looks like you have it.

The big sausage makers can afford to buy tender bite collagen casings. I bought a caddy of them once at it was $290 a caddy (box)

Vac seal your unused casings and keep in fridge.


Looks good.

Meat anything left out at room temperature can make you sick from bacterial contamination from various sources.  No matter how clean you think you are, bacterial contamination is a reality and still will occur.  Recommended for drying sausage casing is ALWAYS to refrigerate and if needed leave the sausage out uncovered for a few hours in refrigeration to dry the casing ends.  NEVER leave meat out at room temp for extended periods exceeding the time taken to start cooking immediately.  Botulism is caused by the toxin released from bacteria and cannot be denatured by cooking.
I know nothing, I see nothing, I hear nothing.

Offline TentHunteR

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6687
  • N.E. Ohio
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 12:16:02 PM »
Looks really good for your first time.

Yep, twisting collagen casings, and keeping them twisted is a real pain.  I prefer natural casings over collagen, but for the few sausages where I do use collagen, I usually tie the links off instead of twisting, because twisting them is such a pain.

As far as blowouts, as you go along you will get used to how much to stuff into the casings. Even then you will still get an occasional blowout.  :( It's easier to control if you have help; let someone else crank the handle while you keep the casings tight, roll the sausage as it comes out, etc.

I also do NOT try to twist while stuffing.  I find it's easier to twist the links after the casings are all stuffed.   





Also you may have noticed that after stuffing the collagen the outer got kinda moist. Leave the twisted links at room temp for about 2 hours. This will allow the twist to get dry some (dont worry your still safe)

Adding to what Kevin (stalag) said, that sounds fine for cured sausage, where a nitrite/nitrate curing salt is used.  For uncured sausage, I let them sit in the fridge on a cooling rack to dry, if it's going to be longer than an hour.

Remember, with C. Botulinum, it's not the bacteria themselves that will make you sick; it's the toxic spores that are released if they are allowed to propagate.




Quote from: stalag
Botulism is caused by the toxin released from bacteria and cannot be denatured by cooking.

I talked with Kevin about this and he meant the spores/toxin cannot be destroyed by the NORMAL way & temperatures we would cook sausage at,  and therein lies the problem!    To be destroyed, the spores/toxins require exposure to temps around 210° F or higher to be destroyed (think about the well known precaution to boil home-canned greens beans for 10 minutes).   Sausage cooked to 210° would definitely be ruined!   :(
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 12:26:11 PM by TentHunteR »
<><
2017 MAK 1 Star General with FlameZone
Former Owner: MAK 1 Star General - 2014 & 2011 Models
Weber Performer with Stoven Pellet Grill Adapter
Modified Horizontal Offset Smoker
1986 Weber One-Touch Silver (a few dings, but still works)
Member #68

Offline nepas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2838
  • Ft Pierce Fl. Member #35
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 12:29:18 PM »
Looks really good for your first time.

Yep, twisting collagen casings, and keeping them twisted is a real pain.  I prefer natural casings over collagen, but for the few sausages where I do use collagen, I usually tie the links off instead of twisting, because twisting them is such a pain.

As far as blowouts, as you go along you will get used to how much to stuff into the casings. Even then you will still get an occasional blowout.  :( It's easier to control if you have help; let someone else crank the handle while you keep the casings tight, roll the sausage as it comes out, etc.

I also do NOT try to twist while stuffing.  I find it's easier to twist the links after the casings are all stuffed.   





Also you may have noticed that after stuffing the collagen the outer got kinda moist. Leave the twisted links at room temp for about 2 hours. This will allow the twist to get dry some (dont worry your still safe)

Adding to what Kevin (stalag) said, that sounds fine for cured sausage, where a nitrite/nitrate curing salt is used.  For uncured sausage, I let them sit in the fridge on a cooling rack to dry, if it's going to be longer than an hour.

Remember, with C. Botulinum, it's not the bacteria themselves that will make you sick; it's the toxic spores that are released if they are allowed to propagate.




Quote from: stalag
Botulism is caused by the toxin released from bacteria and cannot be denatured by cooking.

I talked with Kevin about this and he meant the spores/toxin cannot be destroyed by the NORMAL way & temperatures we would cook sausage at,  and therein lies the problem!    To be destroyed, the spores/toxins require exposure to temps around 210° F or higher to be destroyed (think about the well known precaution to boil home-canned greens beans for 10 minutes).   Sausage cooked to 210° would definitely be ruined!   :(

"spores” which can only be killed by boiling at 212° F (100° C) for at least 10 minutes. At 140° F (60° C), botulinum spores do not develop into toxins, although they are heat resistant and are killed at temps of 160 and higher while in the smoking environment.

Flint
New Elder Wand with infa red tip.

Offline TentHunteR

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6687
  • N.E. Ohio
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 02:28:11 PM »
Rick, thanks for clarifying that!

I may very well be that I am being OVERLY cautious about this, but I have always preferred to err on the side of caution.   :P

Like you mentioned, toxins do not develop at temps around 140°. The toxins are ONLY released when C. Botulinum are allowed to grow/propagate at "Danger Zone" temps.  So, my thinking is typical room temps would fit that "danger zone" range, which is why I personally prefer not letting uncured sausage sit at those temps for more than 1 hour.


The minimum recommended temp/time for destroying the toxins are 176° F (80° C) for 10 minutes.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs104

https://www.cdc.gov/botulism/pdf/bot-manual.pdf



In all truth, Botulism from food is very rare (especially in the U.S.) to begin with, so the chances of any of us getting it from food is very rare anyway.






<><
2017 MAK 1 Star General with FlameZone
Former Owner: MAK 1 Star General - 2014 & 2011 Models
Weber Performer with Stoven Pellet Grill Adapter
Modified Horizontal Offset Smoker
1986 Weber One-Touch Silver (a few dings, but still works)
Member #68

Offline teesquare

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11911
  • Brevard NC - Home Of Hillbilly Caviar
    • Savor Spices
Re: Well, nepas I ain't, but.....
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 02:43:08 PM »
Rick has more experience making sausages and cured meats than anyone I have ever met. And, because I know him - I would feel completely safe eating anything he made.
However....Rick is fastidious about certain things in the process of making cured meats that he has learned via all those years of experience. Some of those things he has learned might allow him some degree of variation from the "USDA guidelines" - and still produce a product which is not only great to eat - but safe too. But...those are an individual's personal experience. If you are reading this - and new to charcuterie, please give credence to FOOD SAFETY FIRST. As you gain experience, you too one day may become as good as Rick, and via that extensive experience and confidence feel that you can allow for flexibility in certain areas. That is your individual prerogative.

HERE is the tricky-sticky part: We that are involved in the Moderation/Administration of LTBBQ feel a sense responsibility to the newer  - or inexperienced members, and our sponsors to make certain we convey the importance of FOOD SAFE PRACTICES as outlined by the USDA. This is to eliminate liabilities for the site, and any individuals, including the folks posting . Charcuterie is a unique aspect of our cooking experience.  Often it is one reflective of our memories,love of family heritage, gifts we received from others that got us interested in charcuterie - and many other things.

We all desire to share our experiences, and exchange ideas. We also want to insure that we are helping folks that are new to this wonderful journey of making cured meats learn safe principles that they can - at their own discretion -decide.
BBQ is neither verb or noun. It is an experience.
Fine Swine and Bovine BBQ Team - Home of squeal and veal!
Beer, Butter and Bacon make everything better.
PBC
PBC Jr.
MAK 2 Star General #639
MAK 2 Star General #4401