Author Topic: “Pit Barrel Cooker? Heck I could build one for less than $100!!!”  (Read 19149 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bob c cue

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
“Pit Barrel Cooker? Heck I could build one for less than $100!!!”
« Reply #-1 on: May 07, 2015, 03:29:37 PM »
Please excuse the long post but I am hoping to get some input from the PBC fans on this site. I occasionally post comments to the BBQ Brethren site and it is not uncommon for folks to respond that they could build one for under $100, and that the PBC is nothing more than a smaller UDS. It gets me worked up a bit and I usually try to respond that that PBC is not just any old UDS, but I usually don’t try to refute the claim that it can be built much cheaper than what you would spend on a PBC.

Well I got to thinking about the cost issue a bit more and realized that especially with the new porcelain coated version that it might be very difficult to build a PBC for much less than what Noah sells it for.  I actually talked to him the other day to help better understand the build process and what it might cost the do-it-yourselfer to try and build one himself. Below is what I put together and am looking for your comments or suggestions. I might eventually post this to BBQ Brethren site, but thought you guys might be open to helping me identify anything I might have overlooked or misstated so that I can make my arguments even better. Looking forward to any feedback you may have!

"Pit Barrel Cooker? Heck I could build one for less than $100!!!”
It is not uncommon for owners of the Pit Barrel Cooker, who are justifiably proud of their cookers, to be told by friends that although it might cook some good food, they could build the same thing for $50 - $100. Well folks, just because you say it that doesn’t make it so.

Granted, people have been building Ugly Drum Smokers (UDS) for years, and they are quite amazing and inexpensive cookers. However, as Amazingribs.com and hundreds of other reviewers have stated, the PBC is not just a regular UDS. There is something about the 30 gallon drum size (vs the standard 55 gallons), the hanging of the meat, the premeasured coal basket, and the very precise venting that makes the food that comes of the PBC out of this world.

But then you may say, “well I can build a UDS with a 30 gallon drum, buy some rebar and meat hooks and I can still spend less than $100." Well let’s look at that statement a little closer, shall we? I’ll review each component of Pit Barrel Cooker package and see what it might cost to duplicate.  And let’s assume for the most part that you will be using new parts. After all, the PBC does not use recycled drums, grates, etc., so you should factor that into your cost to build. This should be fun.

New 30 Gallon Drum: Pit Barrel uses new 18 gauge barrels built to their specs. They do not use adhesive to affix the bottom of the drum to the sides, and this is an important consideration as you will see below in the porcelain coating section.  We’ll set this issue aside for a moment and assume you will buy a standard drum. One of the best prices you will find online for an open lid drum is on Amazon: $71.95 + $34.54 shipping. Total: $106.49
http://www.amazon.com/SKOLNIK-Carbon-Steel-gallons-1-2mm/dp/B006P5ROWQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1430958200&sr=8-3&keywords=30+gallon+drum

Grill Grate 18 inches. Amazon with free shipping:   $16.99
http://www.amazon.com/Weber-7432-Cooking-Grate/dp/B000WEPFOK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430957286&sr=8-2&keywords=weber+grill+grates+for+18.5+kettle

Stainless Steel Hooks: Pack of 8.  PBC hooks are custom made, and are sturdy and very well made. The closest item I could find online was at Lions Deal Restaurant and Office Wholesale: $17.52 + $10.44 Shipping. Total: $27.96
http://www.lionsdeal.com/jr-9116.html

Fire Basket: You could make or buy an expanded metal basket for about $40 - $60, but the PBC basket is made of a heavy gauge steel ring and steel rod grate. A very conservative estimate to build your own or have a welder make one for you is $50.

Horseshoe Stand: Granted you do not need a stand for your barrel but to compare apples to apples we need to estimate what it would cost to build one yourself or have one made for you. Again, a conservative estimate would be about $15.

Hook Tool and Rebar: Nothing too fancy here, but let’s say a total of $8.

Two Jars of 4.7 OZ Rub:  These are included in your Pit Barrel Kit so we should include these in your estimate. They retail for $7.95 at the Pit Barrel website but let’s reduce the price a bit as you may be able to find two comparable bottles of rubs for a total of $10.

Porcelain Finish: This is where it gets really tricky. It is pretty safe to say that no do-it-yourselfer has the equipment, materials and expertise to apply a high quality porcelain coat to the barrel and lid. It is also doubtful that you could find someone in your area who could do the job. In fact, it took months of searching to find a company that was up to the task, and then it took countless test samples to get the process just right.

During the testing process it was determined that the barrels you will find at retail or in the scrap yard are not designed for porcelain coating. The adhesive used to affix the bottom on standard drums will not hold up to the 1550 degrees heating process used in applying the coating. The glue will blow out and prevent the porcelain from adhering and will create a very messy looking coating.  Pit Barrel Cookers have always been made without the adhesive bottom so this was a very happy accident. But for the sake of argument, let’s say you could somehow find a company capable of doing the coating and you could find a drum that is adhesive-free. What would you think this would set you back? We can’t imagine you could do it for less than $150. But to be generous, let’s say it would only cost you$100.

Total Estimated Investment (excluding your time and any gas you use going to the store to purchase supplies):  $334.44.

Cost of the Pit Barrel Cooker: $299.00. So the fine folks at Pit Barrel Company have saved you $35.44.
And think of the time and frustration you save. You have a choice: You could order your PBC today and be cooking some of the tastiest food you will ever have within just a few short days. Or you can think about building one yourself and most likely never get around to it. Even if you do get up the energy to take on this daunting project, think of the long hours of labor, the headaches in trying to source your parts and specialized labor (remember that porcelain coating), and the fact that you many never know the pleasure of eating the juiciest and most favorable smoked chicken ever. It’s your call, but I think I will be calling the Pit Barrel Company.







« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 03:34:55 PM by Bob c cue »

Offline smokeasaurus

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16852
One other thing to consider is the many hours of R & D to get the 30 gallon drum to perform the way it does.

While UDS style smokers are economical to build, somebody, somewhere, somehow came up with the proper venting to get the great results.

I started off reading your post and I was going to kill it, until I read this post through and it is a very good testimonial for PBC. I feel Noah and Amber should be applauded for all the hard work that went into the PBC and the very reasonable selling price...........with free shipping..............

Got Smoke?

Keveri H1 Charcoal oven

Joined 12-5-11   Member# 32

Offline HighOnSmoke

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9885
  • Palm Bay, Florida
I agree it is a great testimonial for the PBC. When I saw the title I went what??? But after reading it completely I agree with Smokeasaurus.
Mike

Auto Akorn Kamado
Recteq Stampede
Recteq Bullseye 380X
Weber Master Touch
PK Original Grill
Weber Jumbo Joe
Weber Smokey Joe
Green Mountain Grill Pizza Insert
Blackstone 36" and 22" griddles

Offline drholly

  • Member No Longer With Us
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10158
  • Brooklyn Park, MN
I agree it is a great testimonial for the PBC. When I saw the title I went what??? But after reading it completely I agree with Smokeasaurus.

X2!

I don't even have the porcelain coated version and feel it is a bargain!

You can't catch a fish if you don't get a line wet...
Pit Barrel Cooker, Char Broil Electric Smoker, Charbroil Prototype Kettleman, Char Broil 500X, Blackstone Flat Top, Char-Broil SRG, Weber Performer, ANOVA sous vide device, Lodge Hibachi, Discada, Chimenea, fire pit, hunk of pink salt...
Member #

Offline amshepar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
From a retail pricing standpoint you are correct on everything but the rub for $8.  The bulk spice section at Whole Foods sells all of the ingredients in the PBC spice rub.  You can recreate the spice if you wanted to, at 5oz costing maybe $3.00 tops. 

Where this overall argument falls apart is that Noah pays a wholesale price for his parts.  His margins would have to be 50% minimum just to be able to pay employees, him and his wife (maybe), pay rent on his factory/warehouse, shipping, and his credit lines with suppliers who would advance him the barrel inventories at very marginal rates.  Any retail prodcut pitched on shark tank would vindicates point.

As a rule of thumb this argument doesn't work no matter what the product is.  It is simply impossible to recreate a product for less than a company can create it.  Yes there are luxury retail items  that have needless markup and the price is reflection more of image, marketing dollars spent, and name recognition (like a certain big green smoker/grill).

What would be interesting would be to build one of these yourself and test various alterations to the PBC.  Then you can see if there are ways to improve performance.  Testing the amount of charcoal, the vent opening at the bottom, where the rebar goes, different sizes.  Of course Noah has done all of this already.

In the end it is a genius product Noah has created.  I have had many night of enjoyment with my PBC and so have my friends and family.  I only wish I had thought of it!

Offline LostArrow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2614
  • Often wrong but never in doubt!
A PBC is simply a vertical charcoal smoker/cooker built on a 30 gal. barrel frame.
I have an Akorn kamado, a 18 in. WSM, a charbroil double chef, a Worlds best Chicken cooker( another 30 gal. frame cooker & a mini WSM made from a weber smokey joe & a Tamale pot.
I've made 3 55 gallon UDS's in the past.  They are all varieties of the same cooker, a little size difference, ones insulated, some work better on high heat , but basically variations of the same theme.
Back to the PBC, unless cooking for an army a 30 gal. frame is more useful than a 55 gal. Frame for backyard cookers.
Used 55 gal. Barrels are easy to find & cheap!
30 gallon I can't find locally & are the major cost in a 30 gal. cooker :-\
When I looked at building a PBC clone ( no porcelain coating, but that's mainly an appearance issue)
It scared $200 .
If you decide to build a PBC clone you'll not save a lot of money. I don't count labor in a hobby project because that's part of the fun ::)
You can build a great cooker & have the satisfaction of building it yourself, just don't expect to save a lot of money
New Braunfels El Darado
Hasty-Bake
Genesis S-330 gasser
Weber Red Genesis 1000
Weber q220
CharBroil CB-740
Char-Griller Kamodo
Curbside kettle
Big Homemade Horizonal smoker @ hunt camp

Offline Tailgating is my game

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4688
Go Cardinals ;D
Big Easy IR fryer
Margaritaville Tailgating Grill. (Jets)
Char-Broil Grill2Go X200
Pizza Pronto Gas Pizza oven & WOK
Coleman Portable Propane Fryer
Sears 4 burner gas G

Weber 22 inch Chal
Uniflame Little Char
Sizzle-Q griddle
Gasone butane
Magma 15 boat gas grill

Offline Bob c cue

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
From a retail pricing standpoint you are correct on everything but the rub for $8.  The bulk spice section at Whole Foods sells all of the ingredients in the PBC spice rub.  You can recreate the spice if you wanted to, at 5oz costing maybe $3.00 tops. 

Where this overall argument falls apart is that Noah pays a wholesale price for his parts.  His margins would have to be 50% minimum just to be able to pay employees, him and his wife (maybe), pay rent on his factory/warehouse, shipping, and his credit lines with suppliers who would advance him the barrel inventories at very marginal rates.  Any retail prodcut pitched on shark tank would vindicates point.

As a rule of thumb this argument doesn't work no matter what the product is.  It is simply impossible to recreate a product for less than a company can create it.  Yes there are luxury retail items  that have needless markup and the price is reflection more of image, marketing dollars spent, and name recognition (like a certain big green smoker/grill).

What would be interesting would be to build one of these yourself and test various alterations to the PBC.  Then you can see if there are ways to improve performance.  Testing the amount of charcoal, the vent opening at the bottom, where the rebar goes, different sizes.  Of course Noah has done all of this already.

In the end it is a genius product Noah has created.  I have had many night of enjoyment with my PBC and so have my friends and family.  I only wish I had thought of it!

Thanks for your thoughts on the rub. I think I will reduce the price bit.

I agree with your points above about economies of scale and that as a rule most people could not create a consumer product cheaper that someone who does that as a business. But the many folks who make the claim that they can build one cheaper do tend to grate on me (pun intended), so I wanted to put something together that would make them think twice before making the claim. Thanks again for your feedback. I do have to disagree with your last sentence. I wish I (Bob c cue) had thought of it!

Offline smokeasaurus

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16852
The UDS seems to be the type of pit that everyone is trying to build on the cheap. Probably with mixed results if everyone comes clean and is honest about their efforts.

As a beloved forum sponsor, I am sure PBC welcomes this discussion. I stumbled upon a PBC owner that was willing to give out specs and dimensions to would be cloners on Facebook and I notified Amber right away....... just not ethical............

Got Smoke?

Keveri H1 Charcoal oven

Joined 12-5-11   Member# 32

Offline muebe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14918
  • Santa Clarita,Ca
One critical thing to note is even though the PBC is made out of a drum but it is not a smoker. It does not have a heat diffuser. The air flow out the top is specifically sized. The lid fits air tight. And the distance from the charcoal bed to the top is much shorter than a 55 gallon drum.

PBC comes fully assembled and easy to go right to your front door. Best bargain in town.

I like the information you have put together but I don't think it will change the mind of most people who already have their minds made up about the PBC.

Posting this might lead to frustration as more naysayers post a response.

And until they actually take the PBC challenge they will continue to doubt it's abilities.
Member #22
2 TBEs(1 natural gas & 1 LP gas)
OBS(Auberins dual probe PID, 900w finned element & convection fan mods)
2011 Memphis Select Pellet Smoker
Traeger PTG with PID
PBC
BBQ Grillware vertical smoker(oven thermostat installed & converted to natural gas)
Uuni 2 Wood Fired Pizza Oven

Offline Chief Mac

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
I totally agree with muebe. It reminds of  best of the best debates between people.   I think you took the right approach  Bob c cue. All you can do is educate your audience with the facts as you have them. Will they all believe -- NO, will you convert some -- Yes.  So for those that insist they can, Let Em Do It! Then they can tell you how and their show the receipts.  ::) ::) ::)
Chief Mac
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:23:43 PM by Chief Mac »
Weber Genesis E-320
Charbroil - CB600X Gas Smoker
Landmann Smoky Mountain Electric Smoker
PBC
14" Kingsford Charcoal Take Anywhere Grill
A Maz N Tube Smoker 6" & 12"
GrillGrates
Anova--Sous Vide Device

Offline TwoPockets

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4897
Well I don't have a PBC but I the the PIA factor of trying to build your own would be too high.
Ken

Weber Performer charcoal grill
Char-Broil The Big Easy
Char-Broil H20 electric smoker (back from the dead)
Camp Chef Expedition propane outdoor range
Camp Chef Italia Artisan pizza oven
Half a ton(literally) of cast iron cookware

Offline GusRobin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1555
  • Test
 As the others have said, you probably couldn't duplicate a PBC for what you could buy one. But if budget is an issue, a UDS can be a pretty good smoker.  I built my UDS for about $70.
$15 for the barrel, got a weber kettle clone for $5 from a clearance bin at a Dollar general so that gave me the top lid, and 2 of the grates, misc hardware for $19, material to make the charcoal basket $16, thermometer $5. Once I got the material it took about 4-5 hours to put it together.

Once I learned it, I have had it hold temps of 225 for 9 hours. I have made some great BBQ on it. Is it as good as a PBC? Definitely not as far as finish etc.

Why couldn't Noah have swatted the 2 mosquitoes?.

Offline LostArrow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2614
  • Often wrong but never in doubt!
Well I don't have a PBC but I the the PIA factor of trying to build your own would be too high.
Ahhh Twopockets sometimes the "Thrill of the Build " is the best part of a cooker for us old guys !
New Braunfels El Darado
Hasty-Bake
Genesis S-330 gasser
Weber Red Genesis 1000
Weber q220
CharBroil CB-740
Char-Griller Kamodo
Curbside kettle
Big Homemade Horizonal smoker @ hunt camp

Offline JGARCIA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
I agree with you that it is annoying when people say they can build one for less, or that it is just a small uds.  Especially when they have never used one.  Although the anti PBC talk has gotten better over the past year.

Just like anything else in life it is all relative.  Why does anyone go out to a restaurant when they can cook the same thing at home.  Why go to a car wash when you can do it yourself, or get an oil change or pay someone to cut your grass.  Well sometimes it nice not to have to do it yourself, and if you can afford it who cares what you choose to do.

Not everyone has the time or talents to build something, so why not pay for one that is as good as it gets.

22.5" Weber Kettle
New Braunfels Bandera
Pit Barrel Cooker (PBC)
Weber Smokey Joe