to cook or not to cook.......

[bill sack]

   just looking for an educated opinion from the BBQ world........i will be going to a kcbs judging class in january so i'm going to ask these simple questions........what are your preferences in a competition?     pork butt or pork shoulder,  baby back ribs or st. louis ribs and finally chicken.......legs or thighs........

[teesquare]

Bill we have a couple of KCBS judges here on the forum...Hopefully they will chime in and offer some advice
T

[bill sack]

okay......i hope so.

[TwoPockets]

Well first of all I am in no way qualified to answer, but I will. Pork butt or Boston butt is cut from the pork shoulder so it is sort of/kind of the same thing. The Boston butt contains the so called "money muscle" that most cooks prefer to turn into the judges. Don't know about competitions but for my money I want pork spare ribs trimmed St Louis style to eat instead of baby backs, although I like baby backs too. On chicken most all competion cooks will turn in some chicken thighs that are trimmed into a nice square presentation. The dark meat of the chicken has more flavor and does not dry out as bad. I attended a nice BBQ Boot Camp that taught you how to choose your meat, trim it, cook it and present it for judging in BBQ competitions and learned a good bit from that although I don't really plan on doing it.

[teesquare]

I know Hub is a KCBS judge, and here in NC - with a lot of big cook off experience...might want to PM him, and I know we have at least one more here....and he is a West Coast guy. Might be good to compare  the two's responses to your questions...?

[ACW3]

As a KCBS Certified Judge, I can say without question that I will judge each meat category to the KCBS standard.  You have to judge whatever the competitor submits, and to the KCBS standard.  In my limited experience, I have seen primarily chicken thighs (with an occasional leg and breast), pork butts, spares, and the hardest thing to cook, and judge, IMO, the brisket.

Brisket is supposed to be the toughest meat to cook, and it is (literally and figuratively).  Chicken is next.  It is difficult to not overcook, too much.  Based on my limited experience ( and inputs from a number of seasoned veterans) the chicken skin is one of the first things to make or beak an entry.  To get "bite-through skin" and not overcook the chicken thigh is difficult.  Having said that, I have had more good chicken than brisket.  I had several pieces of chicken thigh at my last judging that were really good.  On  the other hand, I had a piece of brisket that didn't look too bad, but I could have used it as a tow strap on a truck!  It wasa way undercooked! 

Basically, as a Certified KCBS BBQ Judge, you must put your preferences aside and judge to their standard.  This is difficult, at first.  After my wife and I took the KCBS class, we have become much pickier eaters of BBQ when we go out.  She even "critiques" my BBQ cooking with these standards.  Some days I win, and others we won't alk about!

Keep an open mind and enjoy the class.  You will meet some wonderful people out there judging BBQ.

Art

I consider Hub to be a good friend.  Extremely knowledgable about cooking BBQ, and willing to share his expertise.

[teesquare]

Geez...Art - WHY did I not remember that you are KCSB certified as well? They say that the the second thing to go is the memory....I just can't remember what the first thing is....

Here is a question - and one that may be worthy of  a separate thread:

Are the priorities of KCBS judging concurrent with the consumer?

In other words: Consumers drive the market for BBQ. Consumers decide what is "good"or "not good"  BBQ - based on patronage, or the lack thereof of a BBQ joint.

( I will admit to knowing  what I am asking about - but I believe there are many here that may not understand the process, and it's validity.)

So - is this a question worthy of it's own thread?
T

[TMB]

Heck I would love to cook all three for Art just to get his opinion on INFRARED cooking   

[teesquare]

KCBS rules don't typically allow the use of gas Jack. But I have seen some exceptions ( a comp in Knoxille that was KCBS sanctioned under the "Competitor Series"
And it's kind of a shame - because gas is not really easier to use than a pellet cooker, and pellet cookers are allowed IIRC......

But, those are some GREAT look chicken chunks!

T

[bill sack]

thanks guys for the input.......in the last year i have won firsts in pork , chicken, and ribs,but i'd love to take a shotgun to a brisket.......i have walked in contests that i knew i had no chance of doing so, so i'm very puzzled sometimes as to just what judges are looking for.i just hope that going to a judging class will help.

[smokeasaurus]

I thought I heard somewhere that regional tastes need to be considered. Is there any truth to that?

[ACW3]

My wife and I took the KCBS judging class together in 2009.  Before we judged our first competition, I insisted on taking a KCBS sponsored BBQ cooking class.  We were fortunate enough to be able to take the class from Rod Gray outside Nashville, TN in 2010.  Rod was the reigning KCBS 2009 Grand Champion.  We learned so much from this class.  We actually got to experience all four meat categories being prepared, cooked, and then turned in from both stick burners and pellet grills.  I had a true appreciation of what the competitor goes through to enter and cook for a contest.  I believe that every judge should take a KCBS BBQ cooking class.  I feel that I am a better judge becasue of the experience.

Art

PS.  Because of this exposure to competition cooking, I ended up buiying a pellet grill.

[Hub]

Sorry to chime in so late -- had a lot to take care of and haven't popped into the forum for several days.  Some comments:

1.  Personal taste has absolutely nothing to do with good judging.  We judge to broad standards and do not judge one entry against another -- each is measured on its own.

2.  KCBS standards are not "concurrent with the consumer" as you've phrased it.  Competition BBQ is an art/science unto itself.  However, most untrained, unsophisticated palates will really like it.  In commercial BBQ cook time and expense is a major factor.  In competition it isn't, usually.  Thus, competition barbeque is often much higher in quality.  As Art mentioned, learning to judge will jaundice you a bit.  I think there is good commercial barbeque but that great commercial barbeque is rare.

3.  All food in a KCBS competition must be cooked using wood (sticks, charcoal, pellets, combinations of same) and gas is not allowed as is electric heat.  I think including pellet cookers under "electric" here is incorrect because the heat comes only from wood.  Electricity is used for ignition and a slight convection effect.

4.  Regional tastes do come into play but are not highly significant.  KCBS standards are broad enough to allow for some things like vinegary sauces to compete with sweet, etc., but the best cooks know how to play to their audience (judges) and the best judges don't judge to regional taste.  I judged both the Invitational and the Open of the American Royal this year (teams from all over the country and some international).  What landed at my table showed no regional difference from what I typically get in judging in the southeast U.S..

Please enjoy your judging class and take it very seriously.  We really need lots more good judges.  Have fun, too.  You're in for a treat.

Finally, PM me, Art, or any other judge for help and input at any time.  I've written many articles on judging, many published in the KCBS Bullsheet and some on other forums.  You'll find these articles helpful when you're confronted with a question about an attribute (taste, appearance, tenderness) or completing a comment card appropriately.

Hub

[Hub]

I just noticed I said something in my prior that needs explanation:  The articles I refer to are owned by their publishers, not me and I can't re-publish or post them here.  This site, most others, and the site I moderate have policies prohibiting placing links to other sites and I fully support that.  It is not the spirit or intent of any good site to "pirate" readership or recruit members from another, or self-promote.  It is okay to PM a link to an individual, however, if the spirt is to assist.

Hub

[teesquare]

We are pretty different from most sites Hub  - and if the link is to the Bullsheet, ABBQA, MBN or any other BBQ judging body - I have no problem with links.

If it is a post from anothe BBQ forum, and you are the author - or obtain the permission of the author - and wish to re- post it in it's entireity here please do so!

Thanks!
T