Let's Talk BBQ
FORUM SPONSORS => Pit Barrel Cooker Co. => Topic started by: Stratmeister on September 13, 2015, 05:35:06 PM
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OK, I tried chicken in the PBC again for the family over Labor Day. Did 3 birds cut in halves.
Previously I posted about how long my chicken took, well over two hours. Well I changed my technique completely with the same results. 2+ hours...
I used to light with a chimney, this time I used fluid. I used to wait the recommended 12-15 minutes, this time I waited for gray coals, about 20 minutes. At sea level, vent 1/4 open, both rebars in, top on tight, KBB full basket. PBC initially hit about 400 degrees, settled in around 190.
I used a Maverick 732 and a Thermopen to check doneness.
My observations: both methods still took 2+ hours to reach done, 160 degrees before pulling. With lighter fluid there was more heavy smokey flavor and that smoke grease/creosote flavor I don't like. In fact after cool down the inside of the top was flaking off black creosote. I promptly scraped the top...
So, where do I stand now? What else can I try? Why more creosote from fluid lighting? Is creosote from a smoldering bed of coals, not good combustion?
Just wondering what I need to do to get this great chicken everyone seems to get. What else can I try. Thanks.
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Did you light the charcoal while placed in the PBC with the lid off? And a full basket of charcoal? Kingsford? Good lighter fluid?
Try a new bag of charcoal. Leave out one rebar. Leave the air shutter completely open. And if temps dip low like that crack the lid to bring them back up.
Chicken should be cooked at high temps in the PBC.
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Give Noah and Amber a call.............
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Stratmiester....do not despair and don't panic....as simple as this instrument appears to be it is quite sophisticated and very dependent upon air pressure more than anything else. I'm at 693.72 and when I see the barometric pressure falling I know I'm in for a rough ride cause the air is getting heavy and sluggish and doesn't want to convect like you you'd like it to. When I see this I do the following....light my coals in the chimney without fluid till they are grey...then pour the in the coal basket where I have split the remaking load in half with half unburnt in the basket and half out. When I pour the chimney coals into the coal basket the I put on the remaining coals and wait 10-15 minutes. Then I put the basket in the bottom of the drum. But most importantly, I put a 1/4 inch ceramic tile under each foot of the basket giving a little more room to make it easier for the heavier air to get up under the coal basket.
Remember Noah is shooting his videos in Colorado where the humidity is low and the air moves very freely. That's why he can keep high temps and get chicken to cook so fast. Us low landers have to make a few adjustments.
So don't give up..once you figure it out it will be the best chicken you ever tasted
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Answers first. New bag of Kingsford charcoal, new jug Kingsford lighter fluid, full basket, lit in PBC, preheat burn in PBC with top off.
Now, I hadn't considered humidity but that could be a huge issue I suppose. I'm in a small seaside town on the east coast of Florida and humidity this time of year and at cook time was very high. I like the idea of raising the basket a bit, will try that next cook.
So PBC experts, what are your opinions on how high humidity will effect my cooks?
As usual, thanks for the answers, comments and advice guys. Much appreciated.
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High humidity will affect your burn. I still say call Noah and Amber. They are there for you after the sale and have your answers...........
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Well my only last advice is this. Being you had 3 whole chickens(halved) in the cooker you must have a well established coal bed or the juices from all that chicken will cool off those coals.
My guess would be that the coal bed was just not established enough.
I really don't think humidity was a factor....
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Stratmiester.... But most importantly, I put a 1/4 inch ceramic tile under each foot of the basket giving a little more room to make it easier for the heavier air to get up under the coal basket.
It sounds like Stratmiester is having the same problems I am with chicken, and we're both in hot, humid central Florida.
I think PapaBob has some good advice. I haven't sold mine yet, so I hope to try his idea about lifting the coal basket 1/4" or so. It makes perfect sense, allowing more air to get to the coals.
If you try it, Stratmiester, please let us know how it goes.
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I am with The Smoke - call Noah and Amber. They want you to be happy with your PBC and will do what it takes to help you solve your problems. You might stumble on answer that they might point you to in a few minutes.
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The only question I would add to consider is trimming about trimming the chickens. I always trim back the excess skin and some visible fat from the bird, after I did not do it once and we were getting flavors no one liked.
I always use the chimney method, 10-15 minutes dump, another 10 minutes with the lid off while I hook up the birds. They usually take between 75-90 minutes using Kingsford all natural, and I am outside of Philly at 289 ft above sea level. I do usually only have 1 rebar in and I don't use a full basket, I make a mini-mountain in the center topped with 1 chunk of cherry or pecan, and hang the bar diagonally.
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Those of you getting 90 minute or less chicken cook times, how hot is your barrel running? I've got to believe my 190' temp is not going to get a faster cook time regardless of other factors. Do you leave the top cracked? Rebar holes in barrel open?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the PBC but would like to find a way for faster cook leading to less intense smoke flavor. Yes I can call Noah...
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I have never used a temp gauge on my barrel so I really don't know. I usually have no smoke or blue smoke coming out and base my heat off of that. In the winter I don't mind if it is white because it is more likely steam condensing like when you exhale and it comes from your breath.
If there is think white smoke I remove lid for a minute or two then leave it cracks for 5-10 minutes to give the coals some more air before adding the lid back and keeping an eye on the smoke coming from the barrel.
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Before adding your chicken the heat from the charcoal bed should be pretty intense. If established they will be red hot and ashed over slightly.
If you can load the chicken in the barrel without heat resistant gloves on then the charcoal is not hot enough... Or you have a very high tolerance for pain.
I know mine are ready when I cannot look directly down into the barrel due to the intense heat.
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Wow, I'm getting quite a bit of white smoke and my temps are no where near that hot after the first 15 minutes or so. I only load the chicken after a good hot gray ashed over charcoal bed is established, and that reads 400 degrees at least. From there with top on, rebar in, it drops to around 190, not very hot and stays.
I'm used to TBS (thin blue smoke) from my other smokers and have those and a 22' Weber kettle well mastered so to speak. But the PBC is taking a bit longer to learn correctly. Yes I can "set and forget" and get it cooked, but need to get my temps up to cook the way I want.
Thanks for all the help. I think I just need to cook more on it don't you? LOL...
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I hate to beat a dead horse, but PBC is one of the rare companies that will take care of you long after the cash is checked. Heck, they even give you their cell phone numbers.
Please give Noah and Amber a call so you can enjoy your PBC........it is the best chicken cooker around 8) 8)
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Those of you getting 90 minute or less chicken cook times, how hot is your barrel running? I've got to believe my 190' temp is not going to get a faster cook time regardless of other factors. Do you leave the top cracked? Rebar holes in barrel open?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the PBC but would like to find a way for faster cook leading to less intense smoke flavor. Yes I can call Noah...
I use lump charcoal for my PBC chicken, starts around 420 then settles at 350 - 375.
(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r636/emtawali/IMG_20140827_182142_zps5r28dngf.jpg) (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/emtawali/media/IMG_20140827_182142_zps5r28dngf.jpg.html)
(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r636/emtawali/IMG_20140827_182015_zpscxxmmj2f.jpg) (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/emtawali/media/IMG_20140827_182015_zpscxxmmj2f.jpg.html)
(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r636/emtawali/IMG_20140827_170357_zpsfp8dclsb.jpg) (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/emtawali/media/IMG_20140827_170357_zpsfp8dclsb.jpg.html)
(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r636/emtawali/IMG_20140827_173827_zpsbhzgfmqz.jpg) (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/emtawali/media/IMG_20140827_173827_zpsbhzgfmqz.jpg.html)
1 hour 10 minutes, like clockwork.
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I get thick white smoke, too. Trimming the fat probably makes a big difference, because I left it all in place.
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If you add a chuck of wood, when do you add it? After your coal basket is ashed over and right before you hang your food? Or do you let the wood chunk get started with the charcoal?
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If you add a chuck of wood, when do you add it? After your coal basket is ashed over and right before you hang your food? Or do you let the wood chunk get started with the charcoal?
Place it so it peeks out of the unlit charcoal in a way that it will get touched by the lit coals.
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so if I use the lighter fluid method, I should put my wood chunk in the basket before lighting the coals?
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so if I use the lighter fluid method, I should put my wood chunk in the basket before lighting the coals?
Correct, unless if you move some hot coals around and place the chunk under them. You want the chunk to get hot and put out clean smoke. A smoldering chunk is bad eats.
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OMG! An hour and 10? How are you keeping the temp that high? Is the top off for the whole cook or something? I want this to be my cook time, help! After starting about 400 my PBC drops under 200 quickly after putting the lid on.
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Stratmeister, your inbox is full. I tried to reply to your personal message, but it won't send because your inbox is full.
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Cracking the lid will definitely get your temps up,watch it closely when you do that.Also agree that a 'juicy' chicken will put those coals out,I also trim the fat and tail off,that helped me.Dont give up,it takes practice practice practice to get it dialed in,at least for me,it was far from set and forget,Im a believer your microclimate also plays a roll in it.
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IMO the PBC needs an adjustable vent in the lid,I will modify mine someday to do just that.
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Well, I haven't sold my PBC yet, and there have been a couple of suggestions I hadn't tried, so I did one more cook with the same meat (chicken leg quarters). This time, however, I changed a whole list of other factors, and guess what? Most of the problems Stratmeister and I are having went away.
Here's what changed:
- Humidity was only 47%, compared to 90%+ in all previous cooks.
- Bottom vent was open wider (a little less than 1/2, according to PBC instructions).
- Charcoal pan was lifted 3/8" on small scraps of ceramic tile.
- Used brand new bag of Kingsford Original, never opened, stored indoors.
- Used lighter fluid lighting method, lit at four points around outside edges of grate.
- Two large wood chunks added, between charcoal grate and edges of PBC.
- Burn-in time was 20 min with lid off, and 80-90% of coals ashed over during that time.
- Coals were so hot when lid was added, flames were rising from the middle.
And... What I think was the most important change:
- I trimmed all extra skin and fat from chicken prior to hanging.
There was no excessive dripping or sizzling from the chicken during the cook, no thick white smoke (just thin blue), and NO greasy taste to the chicken - a first for me.
Here's how the barrel temps went:
Hit 311º peak temp a few minutes after adding lid, then it quickly fell.
0:15 272º
0:30 246º
0:45 232º
1:00 227º
Probe was moved to a chicken thigh at this point, and it read as follows:
1:00 159º
1:15 160º
1:30 163º
Cracked the lid (slid sideways) to crisp up the skin
1:45 165º
1:50 169º and a lot more smoke was rolling
Pulled it for dinner
It was delicious, and a lot closer to what I was expecting when purchasing the Pit Barrel.
Bottom line:
- I think the barrel temps are still dropping too fast, but would like to hear some opinions.
- Trimming the chicken skin & fat made a huge difference. Less grease drippings = almost no grease taste.
So that's the chicken you've all been raving about!
I've posted these issues in a couple of other threads, so this will be duplicated in them, as well. Hopefully it will help others.
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Glad you are starting to figure it out and enjoy the chicken!
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OMG! An hour and 10? How are you keeping the temp that high? Is the top off for the whole cook or something? I want this to be my cook time, help! After starting about 400 my PBC drops under 200 quickly after putting the lid on.
Leave one rebar completely out, start blazing hot.
Here's my science, you want the coals red hot so that the drippings do not have a second to chill once they hit the coals. They should evaporate almost immediately.
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LOL Bart, you're right it was at 100%. I had one message in it! I guess I'm only allowed one message at a time...
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I elevate my charcoal basket too,and I have my vent at least 3/4 open now at just under 5000 foot.I use a spring cake pan ring with holes drilled in it.
About my 4th cook I did on ribs had a temperature problem,and my ribs burned up dry with lid big time cracked and temp ONLY 250F.Yeah,right,my mechanical temp gauge broke,it was up around 450 ??? when I stuck in my electronic temp.LOL! ;D
Bigg,my next cook I'll leave out a rebar,that sounds like a real good plan making it breathe better.
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1BIGG_ER : I'm with you ...Using the hotter Lump Charcoal with chicken solves a lot of issues - that plus trimming the excess fat and perhaps slightly opening up the bottom vent (I need both rebar rods when I hang chicken)
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1BIGG_ER : I'm with you ...Using the hotter Lump Charcoal with chicken solves a lot of issues - that plus trimming the excess fat and perhaps slightly opening up the bottom vent (I need both rebar rods when I hang chicken)
Hang it sideways on one rebar, then you won't need both.
Yes my basket is not full. You don't need a full basket for one bird!! LOL
(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r636/emtawali/jerked%20chicken_zps1g3bvelt.jpg) (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/emtawali/media/jerked%20chicken_zps1g3bvelt.jpg.html)
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Doing 3-4 chickens requires both rebars for hanging space. Is cracking the lid equivalent to leaving one rebar out?
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Doing 3-4 chickens requires both rebars for hanging space. Is cracking the lid equivalent to leaving one rebar out?
Cracking the lid will make the PBC hotter than one rebar out. I made cookies on the PBC on Monday. I followed Noah's video and it states to leave the lid cracked a bit. This is the only video of his I've seen where he suggests this. Cook time was basically the same as the oven so with the lid cracked I believe the PBC hangs out around 325-350*. One rebar removed will not get the PBC that high, generally speaking.
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Stratmeister, have you tried any other cooks since our weather changed?
I did two racks of ribs tonight with all changes previously mentioned (including trimming as much fat from them as possible). They were awesome. The temps held as follows:
0:15 - 302 degrees
0:30 - 264
1:00 - 245
2:00 - 244
3:00 - 232
4:00 - 200
At this point the racks were removed to apply sauce. Even though the lid was only off to remove them and put them back (left it on during saucing), temps went back to 223 degrees and held for the 30 minute sauce-baking time.
4:30 - Still 223 degrees
Taste was excellent. No problems with grease flavor.
I would really like to know what changes you've made, and how it's going. Post when you can.
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No I haven't used my PBC since the last chicken cook but plan to make some changes as you recommend.
I'm going to raise the basket, remove one rebar, try to figure out my temp control better. I think I trim my chickens pretty good of excess fat and skin but will pay more attention to that next time as well.
I'm not too worried about ribs at this point, I can crank out some sweet ribs on my other smoker for now, but I've got to get chicken cooks hotter and faster to figure the PBC out better.
Thanks.
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Ribs off the PBC are top notch!
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No I haven't used my PBC since the last chicken cook but plan to make some changes as you recommend.
I'm going to raise the basket, remove one rebar, try to figure out my temp control better. I think I trim my chickens pretty good of excess fat and skin but will pay more attention to that next time as well.
I'm not too worried about ribs at this point, I can crank out some sweet ribs on my other smoker for now, but I've got to get chicken cooks hotter and faster to figure the PBC out better.
Thanks.
Good plan...after you get the chicken to your satisfaction, be sure to try some ribs. The best ribs I have eaten has been off the PBC. Get coals hot put ribs on go back 3hrs later, no peak or temp check, perfect ribs.
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Get a small folded piece of foil and place it between the lid and the drum. Adjust opening by adjusting the folded foil thickness.