Let's Talk BBQ
FORUM SPONSORS => Pit Barrel Cooker Co. => Topic started by: gbwsmoker on July 07, 2016, 06:25:16 PM
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After reading all of the rave reviews and wanting to cook more than one rack of ribs at a time, I purchased a PBC. I have done three cooks so far: ribs, chicken and brisket. The results were disappointing and I am asking for help.
For the ribs, I used Kingsford blue bag and lit the coals with a chimney exactly as shown on the website. Vent is 1/4 open as I live at sea level. The ribs had a chemical/petroleum flavor as though rubbed with ground up Kingsford. Did not use a thermometer to check pit temp.
For the chicken, I lit the same way but added a chunk of hickory. Same flavor, flabby skin and dry chicken.
For the brisket, I lit with lighter fluid as per instructions and hung the beef. Salt and pepper rub. Used two probes. The PBC was close to 400 degrees and the beef hit 160 after only two hours. I then wrapped it and finished the cook until I had it at 200 which took several more hours but nowhere near the 12 it would have taken had I used a low and slow with a stick burner. Beef was tender but very little of the fat had rendered and it had the same off taste.
I have been all over the LTBBQ website and have found some others with the same flavor issue.
When watching Steven Raichlen use the PBC on tv, on one cook (the jerk ribs) he used real wood charcoal, put wood chips on top of that and added a half chimney of cherry red real wood charcoal on top. On another cook, a view inside the drum showed the coals appearing lit all the way from top to bottom - no unlit dark areas.
I am no novice to BBQ and have been smoking successfully for many years. The PBC seemed to offer a way to cook larger amounts without having to tend a good offset overnight.
A few questions:
1. Is the petroleum flavor the normal flavor profile for the PBC or is there a way to get the good hickory smoked flavor I am used to here in the south?
2. Will using wood charcoal instead of briquettes provide wood flavor?
3. Should the coals be lit all the way as per Raichlen's show or will that make for too high a temp in the pit?
4. Has anyone tried using real wood instead of charcoal? I have plenty of oak, dry and ready to use.
Any advice will be welcome. Thanks.
gbwsmoker
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in regards to your questions...
1. I know some people just don't like the flavor of charcoal. I don't taste petroleum in my cooks when using KBB, it tastes to me like food cooked over charcoal has always tasted.
2. Do you have a Lowes near you? A lot of PBC owners including myself prefer Stubbs charcoal. To me it's a natural wood grilled flavor.
(http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae258/southflaart561/ScreenShot2016-02-15at63559PM_zpsce525803.png)
3. I've always done the lighter fluid method and I was making the mistake of letting the coals get too hot. Now I light the coals and hang my meat at exactly 12 minutes and cover. Very few of the coals are whited over. If they are too white, your temps will get too hot and then drop in the middle of a cook as the coals burn out too fast.
4. I have never used real wood but have added chunks and chips on my coals for cooks
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Stubbs for me. KBB is too strong IMO. I've yet to get crispy chicken skin, but plan to bump up the PBC to 400 this weekend and see what I get.
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Thanks. There is a Lowe's nearby and they stock Stubbs. I will try that.
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I checked out the Lowes website to see if my local store had Stubbs, would like to try it. They did.
Then my eye wandered to Cowboy brand lump. The reviews are really bad. Nails, rocks, tiny pieces of lump that fall through the grates. The reviewers said it used to be a great product. Wonder how a company could let quality slide so much
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I have used KBB for over 5 years in my PBC with great results.
I have a question for you: Have you contacted Noah and Amber about your issues?
They will do everything possible to get your PBC running great :)
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I checked out the Lowes website to see if my local store had Stubbs, would like to try it. They did.
Then my eye wandered to Cowboy brand lump. The reviews are really bad. Nails, rocks, tiny pieces of lump that fall through the grates. The reviewers said it used to be a great product. Wonder how a company could let quality slide so much
I have been using Cowboy for a couple of years (?) now...and no problems here. Like it a lot....
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"A few questions:
1. Is the petroleum flavor the normal flavor profile for the PBC or is there a way to get the good hickory smoked flavor I am used to here in the south?
Have you tried using fire starter cubes or newspaper to lite your charcoal. Everyone's tastebuds and sense of smell are individual? I am surprised sometimes by just how different we can be from one another in the area of smell and taste....
2. Will using wood charcoal instead of briquettes provide wood flavor?
It will provide a different flavor. Some like it - others do not.
3. Should the coals be lit all the way as per Raichlen's show or will that make for too high a temp in the pit?
I find that allowing a little more burn in time on the coals before I start cooking over them will make for a "cleaner" taste - personally.
4. Has anyone tried using real wood instead of charcoal? I have plenty of oak, dry and ready to use.
Not sure anyone has tried that to my knowledge....But- why not? You my be able to ad to the knowledge base with an experiment!
Any advice will be welcome. Thanks.
gbwsmoker"
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Please feel free to call us at the office and we can answer your questions! We do not recommend wood chunks since they burn much hotter and greatly increase the temperatures of the Pit Barrel Cooker. As recommended in the Troubleshooting Video on our website found under Video Recipes, we only recommend a handful of wood chips right before adding the food. We do not recommend using any accelerants when lighting the coals, unless you are using lighter fluid and that is just a quick douse to get them started. Getting the coals too hot too soon will result in less than desired outcomes. The coals should not be ashed over before the food goes into the PBC, this causes temps to be too high too soon and the coals will become exhausted to soon and the barrel temps will drop in the later part of the cook. The Pit Barrel Cooker, when properly lit and used, will average between 275 - 310F and the coals will last 7-8 hours. Deviation from our recommendations will produce different results. Please check out all the information on our website at www.pitbarrelcooker.com under Video Recipes and please call us with questions or concerns. The number is 502-228-1222.
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Speaking about the properties of charcoal/wood, the petroleum taste that some are experiencing with the Kingsford brand briquettes are more than likely due to the binders in the charcoal itself. I would try different brands until you light on a brand that works for you. Lump charcoal directly produced from trees will burn hotter due to the lack of binders and fillers and the fact what you are getting is carbonized wood (charcoal) only. Keep this in mind for the cooks. I do not see why you could not mix the two to moderate the temperatures. Use of wood soaked in water then partially dried will smoke because the moisture retards the burn. This will also work for charcoal as well. Just don't oversoak or the fuel won't burn. Burning occurs when you get a vapor layer between the solid fuel and the oxygen in the atmosphere. Once started the combustion process is self feeding until you either block the oxygen source or run out of fuel. This is behavior that you will see if you experiment with the fuel. This does not mean that I recommend that you follow this for cooking purposes.
It is recommended for both charcoal and wood especially used for cooking, that you keep it in storage conditions where the fuel is stored in a low humidity condition. Best recommendation would be in a sealed cabinet or closet where the air humidity is regulated. The lower the humidity level, the easier the fuel will start. This is because the cellulose content in charcoal and wood is hygroscopic (water loving) and will soak with water even though you cannot see it.
However TentHunter in a conversation, suggests that you use dry wood chips in a foil pouch with a single tiny hole ideally no larger than a meat temperature thermometer sized hole in the pouch. This will carbonize the wood chips and create a cleaner smoke as the foil pouch will capture the tars and other heavy volatiles inherent in the wood.
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My advice would be to address ONE issue at a time and then assess the change good or bad.
I personally prefer Royal Oak briquettes over KBB. I don't dislike KBB but I prefer RO over it mainly because it is milder in residual taste.
There is a sweet spot to hit either way you light your coals. Waiting too long to hang meat will get you high temps that dwindle rapidly and the contrary....hanging meat too soon will allow the drippings on the coals to extinguish them, causing too low of temps.
Remember, change one variable at a time until successful then move to the next issue. With diligence you will get a string of great cooks and never look back!
Also one more thing to try. Trim your meat. Excessive fatty meats dripping into coals will not only diminish temps/coals but also add to the grease-fog taste that some people do not like.
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After reading all of the rave reviews and wanting to cook more than one rack of ribs at a time, I purchased a PBC. I have done three cooks so far: ribs, chicken and brisket. The results were disappointing and I am asking for help.
For the ribs, I used Kingsford blue bag and lit the coals with a chimney exactly as shown on the website. Vent is 1/4 open as I live at sea level. The ribs had a chemical/petroleum flavor as though rubbed with ground up Kingsford. Did not use a thermometer to check pit temp.
For the chicken, I lit the same way but added a chunk of hickory. Same flavor, flabby skin and dry chicken.
gbwsmoker
You have received a lot of good advise and I concur with others to change from KBB to Stubbs or my preferred Royal Oak Briquettes. I have stop doing chicken in the PBC (even with RO) since we do not like the taste. I now grill chicken on my PK grill and then set it on the indirect side until done. I have experienced many of the problems you had and in the end found that lighting about 25 coals in a chimney starter will yield a pit temp of around 250F which is what I want for smoking. Lighting more coals is going to raise the pit tmep IMHO. Add a small amount of wood (un-soaked) for extra smoky flavor but don't overdo it
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When I do add wood to a PBC cook, I don't use chunks. They can become a heat source. I like to use chips. I sprinkle them in between the briquettes when filling the charcoal basket. Used this way, I get the chips burning with the charcoal throughout the entire cook. Also a benefit of mixing them in with the charcoal is they wont burst into flames like when they are tossed on top of burning briqs..................
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I've had my PBC for a couple of years now and use KBB and use the chimney to start my coals and have never experienced the issues that you are having. I use KBB in all of my cookers and grills and they all seem to taste the same to me. I guess some people's taste buds are more sensitive than others. I hope you get it figured out.
Wayne
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When I do add wood to a PBC cook, I don't use chunks. They can become a heat source. I like to use chips. I sprinkle them in between the briquettes when filling the charcoal basket. Used this way, I get the chips burning with the charcoal throughout the entire cook. Also a benefit of mixing them in with the charcoal is they wont burst into flames like when they are tossed on top of burning briqs..................
And the The Smoke always soaks his wood chips in Chardonnay 8)
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... Use of wood soaked in water then partially dried will smoke because the moisture retards the burn. This will also work for charcoal as well. ... This does not mean that I recommend that you follow this for cooking purposes.
NEVER SMOKE WITH WET WOOD!!
Sorry, didn't mean to yell (Well actually I sorta did). Wood doesn't smoke till it's dry so you're not getting more smoke; you're just delaying the actual smoke waiting for the wood to dry. Until then you're making steam mixed with nasty stuff (like creosote). It adds flavor but not any flavor you ever want added.
Note to reader: The reply above is quoted as a public service from the LTBBQ "Blast From the Past" archives (Ka Honu's rants, chapter 1).
... However TentHunter in a conversation, suggests that you use dry wood chips in a foil pouch ...
Another "save" by the man from Ohio (wherever that is).
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good article on the myth of soaking wood...
http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_soaking_wood.html
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I stopped soaking my wood years ago at the "urging s" of the turtle 8)
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As we can see...there are many ways to enjoy your PBC to choose from. FWIW - the manufacturer's recommendations should be your first methods, until you are comfortable to try other things. We all have found additional things that we as individuals like regardless of the cooker we are using- or don't like in the cooking process - but, the basics as explained by Amber an d Noah will get you on the right track. Then it is up to you to experiment with as Gene suggested - with one variable at a time.
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... Use of wood soaked in water then partially dried will smoke because the moisture retards the burn. This will also work for charcoal as well. ... This does not mean that I recommend that you follow this for cooking purposes.
NEVER SMOKE WITH WET WOOD!!
Sorry, didn't mean to yell (Well actually I sorta did). Wood doesn't smoke till it's dry so you're not getting more smoke; you're just delaying the actual smoke waiting for the wood to dry. Until then you're making steam mixed with nasty stuff (like creosote). It adds flavor but not any flavor you ever want added.
Note to reader: The reply above is quoted as a public service from the LTBBQ "Blast From the Past" archives (Ka Honu's rants, chapter 1).
... However TentHunter in a conversation, suggests that you use dry wood chips in a foil pouch ...
Another "save" by the man from Ohio (wherever that is).
Umm, you do realize I qualified the statement. You need to read my entire post in context rather than creating a rant where none need exist. There is a science behind the fuel which is what I am speaking to. TentHunter was helping me by certain suggestions so that people could more easily distinguish between the science which holds under experimental conditions, and what is best practice when cooking.
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Thank you all for your advice. To answer some questions: yes, I called the PBC company twice. Was told to set the intake at 1/4 (it was) and lite the coals according to the website (which I had done) and hang the meat immediately upon pouring the lit coals on the unlit or after 12 minutes of burn with lighter fluid ( both of which I did).
I think the flavor issue is a combination of the petroleum binder in the KBB and grease dripping on the charcoal. My first change will be to try Stubbs and light 25 briquets instead of 40. After that, I will fiddle with the intake until I can get the proper pit temp.
As for grilling, I always grill steaks over KBB using reverse sear. Since the coals are fully lit, there is never an issue about taste.
I will keep trying. Thank you all.
gbwsmoker
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The "grease fog" flavor from the PBC or UDS is so different than other types of cookers.
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I've had my PBC for over a year now.....most of the time I use Kingsford blue and usually start it with Walmart brand starter fluid. I do use Stubbs sometimes, which I think I like better. Me nor any of the folks that have eaten anything off my PBC have said anything about a petroleum taste, most just rave about it. I really can't think of why you are having that problem. I am sure someone on here will stir you right. The main thing is just don't give up on the PBC.
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Umm, you do realize I qualified the statement. You need to read my entire post in context rather than creating a rant where none need exist.
Umm, I did read your entire post and, since you didn't state positively that wet wood is a bad idea, disagreed with the implied suggestion that it might even be marginally acceptable. Besides, there's always room for a good rant (and I have so many available that beg to be aired out occasionally).
No harm; no foul.
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GBWSMOKER-Sorry to hear about your flavor problems. Hang in there it will come. I've had my PBC for ove 18 months and have never had a bad cook. I just follow the videos with the only difference is that I use Kingsford applewood charcoal. At 12:30 today I hung 8 half chickens just like the video says. I cut the grass, cleaned the pool and stocked the bar with some Kentucky bourbon ale and makers 46 for a dinner party at 5:30. No Temp probes, no cracking the lid and opened the PBC for the first time at 4:45. The chickens were perfect. (Apologies to the unicorn freaks no photos. The 46 can make for some blurry pictures). Anyway hang in there, keep trying, don't over think it and I'm sure you'll end up with some of the best food you've ever had. Good cooking!
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I will add my two cents worth, really that's about all my advice is worth. My new thing for the PBC is to use only a half basket of coals. Fill up half the basket as in on all coals on ONE side, not half way full from top to bottom. Take 1/4 of those out and light in chimney starter. Dump into basket on top of unlit coals, again, all on one side. Hang your ribs or chicken on the opposite side from the coals. This is in effect indirect cooking (as much as the PBC can do). The drippings don't fall into the coal and create that "grease fog" that The Smoke speaks of. Made a whoppingly huge difference for me. I personally have given up getting crispy skin. Sometimes I get close, other times I feel like I'm eating a rubber chicken. At least with the new indirect cooking I don't get a chemically tasting rubber chicken ;)
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<edit>
I don't want to hijack the thread.
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Please feel free to call us at the office and we can answer your questions! We do not recommend wood chunks since they burn much hotter and greatly increase the temperatures of the Pit Barrel Cooker. As recommended in the Troubleshooting Video on our website found under Video Recipes, we only recommend a handful of wood chips right before adding the food. We do not recommend using any accelerants when lighting the coals, unless you are using lighter fluid and that is just a quick douse to get them started. Getting the coals too hot too soon will result in less than desired outcomes. The coals should not be ashed over before the food goes into the PBC, this causes temps to be too high too soon and the coals will become exhausted to soon and the barrel temps will drop in the later part of the cook. The Pit Barrel Cooker, when properly lit and used, will average between 275 - 310F and the coals will last 7-8 hours. Deviation from our recommendations will produce different results. Please check out all the information on our website at www.pitbarrelcooker.com under Video Recipes and please call us with questions or concerns. The number is 502-228-1222.
See, now this is why I joined.
I too was having issues with my PBC. When I cooked ribs... They were done in an hour and a half/2 hours. And they were dry. I was very disappointed with how they came out. I have made 6 rack of ribs with only one turning out just okay.
I have always added wood. This response above gets me excited. I will try my next batch without any wood. I hope that will keep the temp down lower so they can slowly cook and not flash fry my rack of ribs.
I do have one question though.... I did a pork shoulder. I put it in the PBC for 5 hours and it reached an inside temp of about 155-165 then I wrapped in foil and poured in apple juice and a vinegar mop sauce. Cooked it wrapped until it hit 195. Everything on the outside pulled apart very easily... but the inside inside really was tough. it didn't pull apart at all. Was this a case of not done enough or was it overly done? I did use wood for this as well. I know that could be part of the problem. Any help would be appreciated.
That was a case of individuality in cuts of meat. Sometimes - 195F is sufficient...But I have resorted to 205-210F as being my target I.T. for pork butts or shoulders. And THAT is only reference. There will be variations in each piece of meat, and - letting it cook a little longer and to a higher IT is usually sufficient to make it tender. Check at temp at the center of mass....
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Check eh temp nee the center of mass....[/b]
Huh? I must need a new Aggie dicshunery dikshunary dictionery word book.
... pork shoulder... until it hit 195... not done enough or was it overly done?
PoW - Every pig (and cow) is different. Rather than go strictly by internal temperature you might find it better to "fork test" butts and briskets every 5-10 degrees after you hit about 185o or 190o. You'll find some are ready then and some will need to go all the way to 200o or higher.
... half basket of coals. ... Hang your ribs or chicken on the opposite side from the coals... The drippings don't fall into the coal and create that "grease fog"
Makes a helluva lot of sense to me. I think that was pretty much my only complaint about the PBC.
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Quote from: teesquare on Today at 07:50:14 PM
Check eh temp nee the center of mass....[/b]
Huh? I must need a new Aggie dicshunery dikshunary dictionery word book.
Fixed...Bad phone svc x @#$%^& auto-correct spelling = fodder for a living fossil with a warped sense of humor. ;) 8)
And - as well as a fork test as the "ancient hard shelled one" suggested...a long bamboo skewer can make for a good probe for the center of large cuts that may be to thick to fork.....like ...theThe Turtle.... :D :D :D