Let's Talk BBQ
General => General Discussion & Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: TMB on November 15, 2016, 07:55:32 PM
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I was told by more than one person that meat will not take in smoke past 160 to 165 temp.
True or false?
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From what I understand, the smoke ring stops being developed at 130 - 135F. But smoke should have an effect at any temperature.
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I not sure. Can't wait to see what everyone else says :)
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From what I understand, the smoke ring stops being developed at 130 - 135F. But smoke should have an effect at any temperature.
That is what I understand too, except I have read that the smoke rings does not develop above 140 degrees. But the smoke will continue to affect
the meat as long as you are feeding it wood.
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From what I understand, the smoke ring stops being developed at 130 - 135F. But smoke should have an effect at any temperature.
That is what I understand too, except I have read that the smoke rings does not develop above 140 degrees. But the smoke will continue to affect
the meat as long as you are feeding it wood.
I have heard the same
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From what I understand, the smoke ring stops being developed at 130 - 135F. But smoke should have an effect at any temperature.
That is what I understand too, except I have read that the smoke rings does not develop above 140 degrees. But the smoke will continue to affect the meat as long as you are feeding it wood.
Exactly what I have been and told.
I do know there is more smoke flavor in the Ribs and Butts I do unwrap than wrap at 165.
We did a test with ribs years ago on a Traeger and I will post it elsewhere to not to detract from this subject.
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I have always been under the assumption that meat is most receptive to smoke the first two hours of the cook. After that you only need heat.
This is how I do it and I do not get oversmoked grub..................
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Smoke doesn't cause a smoke ring. Wood has lots of Nitrogen. Burning wood mixes Nitrogen and Oxygen and becomes Nitrogen
Dioxide (NO2). NO2 is absorbed by moist meat and reacts with myoglobin (what gives meat its color) in the meat to form a "smoke Ring". It stops at about 135 degrees. After 140 to 150 degrees meat has very little smoke penetration because of the tightening pores and switches to smoke adhesion, hence the bark forming on the outside.
You can also get a smoke ring on a propane or natural gas bbq because NO2 is byproduct of those gases.
This is from a university study I read a few years ago, 'cause I sure aren't that smart.
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This is from a university study I read a few years ago, 'cause I sure aren't that smart.
[/quote]
Well you sure had us fooled ;) ;) ;D
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140°
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I think one of us needs to do some testing rap some ribs and leave some unwrapped and see which one has the most smoke flavor on the same cook
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I think one of us needs to do some testing rap some ribs and leave some unwrapped and see which one has the most smoke flavor on the same cook
Hmmmm.....testing you say? ;)
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False!!
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I think one of us needs to do some testing rap some ribs and leave some unwrapped and see which one has the most smoke flavor on the same cook
Hmmmm.....testing you say? ;)
OK, we did a family test some years back and here is the test.
Spareribs smoke, no foil verses foil tests
Some have been asking about foil or no foil ribs. I did and posted a test a long while ago so I will post it again for any newcomers. Hope you all enjoy.
Spareribs smoke, no foil verses foil tests REPOST:
We have been having a debate in the family about foiled or no-foiled spareribs so my wife and I decided to do a test.
Two racks of spareribs both prepare the same way. We will foil one and not foil the other during the smoke.
My wife applying mohunken butt rub and oranges.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1511.jpg).
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1512.jpg)
Wrapping in plastic wrap and into the fridge overnight.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1508.jpg)
Next day I took the ribs out of the fridge and allow them to come up on temperature for about an hour and a half. I spread a thin coat of yellow mustard and more rub on the ribs.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1539.jpg)
The pit is running at 225 degrees so in go the ribs.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1540.jpg)
Three hours in and I foiled one rack with a mixture of apple juice, apple cider and EVOO.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1545.jpg)
Five hours in, time to remove the rib rack from the foil. The top of the rib look fine but the bottom looked mushy.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1549.jpg)
Now put on the finishing sauce and turn up temperature to 300 degrees and set the sauce. This should be 15 to 30 minutes. The higher temp sets the finishing sauce and gives it a glossy finish.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1550.jpg)
Ribs been in the smoker for six hours, time to pull, cover and rest for 30 minutes. The rack in the rear is the foiled rack. Both look good but the foil rack shrunk more losing more meat and was really limp when I pulled it. I like some texture in my ribs, more like competition ribs. Taste test coming up.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1552.jpg)
I went to heavy on the sauce but that is what the grandchildren like.
Now for the family judging.
First, the non-foiled ribs. Cut like butter, has a smoke ring and looks like it is moist.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1554.jpg)
Second, the foiled ribs. Cut like butter, has a smoke ring and looks like it is more moist than the non-foiled rib
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1556.jpg)
Now test for how easily the ribs pull apart.
First, the non-foiled ribs. Pull apart easily but did not fall apart and moisture ooze out.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1558.jpg)
Second, the foiled ribs. Pull apart easily but did not fall apart and much more moisture oozed out.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh471/Savannahsmoker/Smoking%20BBQ/Ribs/IMG_1559.jpg)
Taste test by the family of six adults and three grandchildren were 8 for foil and 1 for non-foil. The foiled ribs seem to have more moisture and were completely falling off the bone as I expected. The taste of both was equally great. The non-foiled ribs, while tasting as good, was a little tougher but I do like some bite in my rib but with more smoke flavor.
Foiled Ribs Win 8 out of 9 but it was very close. So close that maybe it was a difference between the cuts of ribs.
Bottom line is I will smoke ribs both ways. If I use a stick burner I will foil but in the Traeger it is either way. I and my wife like non foiled ribs and the rest of the family like ribs foiled.
We all agree the non-foiled ribs had more smoke flavor.
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I remember this post Art and thanks, This was a great post for many parts of cooking weather to foil or not foil, taste and texture and smoke flavor ;).
Real judging from judges in a comp is one thing, real people tasting and giving you feed back is another.
When I went to a comp a few years back with my SRG's I knew I had to prove something so I tested and tested. if Kimmie said these are great I was in trouble, but when she said these aren't right I knew I had the texture down :D All I had to do was get the smoke into the ribs so they tasted like they were cooked in a stick or charcoal burner. That was the tough part for sure
By using pecan/hickory mix and started the smoke kinda heavy from the start I was able to pull off a 4th place in ribs beating out 13 other teams most using Weber smokers,) BGE's and stick burners
Starting the smoke heavy and early kept me from worrying if the ribs would get smoke in them before they hit 165 (so I thought)
Thanks for info
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Tommy I think you were partially right. Meat seems to take in more smoke below 165F because the meat is looser, as the temp goes up the meat tightens so as not to allow as much smoke into the mass. But even tho less smoke enters the meat it still has an effect as long as it is there.
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Real judging from judges in a comp is one thing, real people tasting and giving you feed back is another.
Exactly.
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Tommy it's true, and Sparky got the temp right. Meat stops ABSORBING smoke at around 140° F.
This is because at 140° the myoglobin starts to denature (which is also why the smoke ring stops developing at 140°) and the cell walls on the outside layers of the meat constrict and wall up, thereby stopping osmosis, which is what carries water soluble smoke particulates (phenols) into the meat.
HOWEVER.... Smoke particulates will continue to adhere to the outside of the meat, which still contributes smoky flavor.
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Years ago, on another forum we got into an extremely lengthy discussion of smoke penetration and when and how to smoke to best effect. After about a week of some really well researched (even scientific publishings) posts and theories and even a joke or two no solid conclusion could be reached. Findings differ even among experts and even the definition of "smokiness" can be a tossup. So . . .
Common sense: Meat going into a smoky environment that is raw and has its maximum porosity is going to absorb more smoke flavor than meat which has been partially or totally sealed on the surface because of cooking. This does not mean that meat cannot or does not absorb more smoke flavor later in the cook but does logically imply that it absorbs more earlier in the cook all else being equal. There are also differences in meat by type, cut, and other factors (e.g. rub type, application method and timing). All of this is why so many recipes and approaches exist.
Another factor, particularly applicable to taste, is the smoke production method and source. Folks who prefer and seek heavy smokiness in the finished product will often utilize significant time in "white smoke" -- deliberately induced smoldering -- while those who seek more balance with other ingredients and flavor will induce more "blue smoke" (non-smoldered) time. Certain woods (mesquite, hickory, etc.) are more intense for added smokiness while others (apple, alder, etc.) may produce a "sweeter" but less intense impact.
My point is not to sum up the thread or end discussion, but rather to suggest that when we post a recipe or approach on something we've smoke we should remember to sum up what type smokiness we were trying for and what we got ;D
Hub
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I've heard smoke does not sick to the meat very well at 140. Dry surface so nothing to hold it. Smoke adheres to cold or wet surfaces much better. So if you spritz the smoke has something sick to.
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Good explanation Hub.
When I use to smoke on stick burners, my last one being a Lang 36, I had to foil at 160 or so or I would get to much smoke flavor.
Switched to mainly pellet smokers and I can go with or without foil becasue of the light smoke induced by a pellet smoker.
As I said earlier, my food judges are my family and they all say the food coming of the pellet grill without being foiled has more intense flavor. In a pellet grill I mainly foil to increase tenderness, prevent drying and add additional flavors.