Took a beginners to handgun class

[muebe]

If it was not so hard here in California I would get a CWP

It is really difficult to holster a shotgun!

[sparky]

while I am not a gun person my wife wants to be.  I hope that any of our members that are cops or carry guns to plz be safe.  I have a lot of respect for our law enforcement ppl.  my brother n law works for a federal agency in law enforcement.  he gives me a lot of grieve for some of the things I do.  he is real nice guy.  but I carry his card w/ me all the time.  it has helped sometimes.   

[Big Dawg]

Sparky, the way I look at it, I don't wear a helmet only when I think I'm going to be in a wreck, I wear a helmet every time I ride, period.

It's the same thing if you are carry for personal protection.  I don't just carry when I think I'm going be headed into a scary situation, in fact I really try to avoid those.  I carry all the time because, just like when I'm on my bike, I don't know when a bad situation is going to sneak up and find me.

In fact, I was over a friends house yesterday for 5-6 hours working on some BBQ stuff and I doubt the either he or his wife had any idea.





BD

[sparky]

sound logical to me BD. 

[deestafford]

Nope.  Only on days that end in "y".  Dee

[teesquare]

It is unfortunate that we live in a time which the bad guys seem to get all of the advantages....

But - here are a couple of "personal truths" I live by:

1.Averge response time for a policeman is 15 minutes. Most handgun calibers travel at 2000+ feet per second.  So, if I ever need protection in seconds...a cop is 15 minutes away. Not his fault - just logistics.

2. I have at least as much right to protect my life - and those near me - than a thug who desire to take those lives. May God have mercy on him. I will not.

Now, I am not a "chest thumper". I do NOT believe that announcing or advertising that I carry ads anything to my ...legend ...Nor does it help in preserving the peace, as there are thugs that are always looking for an opportunity to do harm. I DO believe that we are obliged to avoid circumstances which could lead to having to draw a firearm.
Having said that - I also have insurance on my health, and my home and my car.

Therefore - I carry insurance against insanity, stupidity and poor judgement as well.

[Pappymn]

Well said Tee. I've enjoyed all the input on this.

Wife and I were talking the other day that if we had to defend ourselves I would hand her the gun as she is the better shot.

But the reality is my wife is a sweet woman and it would haunt her. I on the other hand am highly rational and would move on very quickly. Just how my brain works.

[teesquare]

Thanks Pappy.

Make no mistake - should that horribly un-fortunate day ever come where you have to pull the trigger, you can't call the bullet back. It is a life altering decision for one, and a life ending decision for the other person. Be sure. Be quick - but don't hurry....

And - the only way to accomplish this with competency - is training. Practice, practice, practice. Take courses. get involved with a range that does scenario training. Consider taking up 3-gun contests as  a hobby.

Who knows what our future brings - from day to day?

So, for me the best solution has always been first - situational awareness. Not paranoia, but truly being aware of as much of  what is going on around you as possible. I see people "tune out"  everything around them in any circumstance you can imagine....this is a formula for becoming a victim and statistic.
Second, avoid those situations that do not "feel right" in your gut. Your head can talk you out of things sometimes. Let your gut make the final check.
Just do things the right way. When bad things happen - it is not like in the movies. It is over in a flash, again training is the key. You want to be able to count on training instinct and muscle memory to take over while your logic center in your brain is trying to reason thru the shock of the moment.

[deestafford]

Since there are no youngun's in my house I keep a loaded double barrel shotgun by the bed loaded with buck shot.  Dee

[sparky]

well, this has really opened my eyes to the way other ppl think.  I always tell my kids, "don't but yourself in a bad situation".  I believe in that fully.  I have in my younger days ran w/ a not so nice crowd.  most of my friends back then carried guns.  me, I really like knifes for protection back then.  nice and quiet.  i have taken a lot of martial arts courses on many different styles for a long time.  hurt ppl real bad i have no problem w/.  I myself believe that I don't have the right to take another person's life.  that is the reason I joined the USCG.  to save ppl.  I have meritorious citations for saving lifes.  I feel good about that.  me killing someone would wipe all that away.  I would have a hard time living w/ myself after that.  if I had a gun I would probably shoot someone anyway.  as I am getting older I have less patience for stupidity in ppl.  I will say that if I every go out drinking I sure do wish I hang out w/ you guys.  will still be friends right?   

[deestafford]

sparky, Still  friends. Everything and everybody ain't the same.  That's why God made both vanilla and chocolate ice cream.  Don't worry if we are somewhere and you want the bad guy taken care of before he gets within knife range...one of us will handle it for you and not lose a minute of sleep.  I'd look at it as just improving the gene pool.  Dee

[RAD]

Tee-Some really great points. When I went to get my CWP I was told that since I had been in the military I wasn't required to take the course. I still spent the $35 and took the course. When my wife went for hers I sat in the training. We go to the range to keep fresh and to know our guns.

Pappy - whatever you decide on remember that you have young ones in the house and make sure you think about how you are going to secure your weapons. When my girls were young I taught them about guns, field stripping, cleaning, and shooting. Most importantly, respecting them.   

sparky - we would always have your back but once I start drinking my gun goes in the safe.

[teesquare]

The point about social responsibility should not be muted. The objective of carrying concealed is NOT to take a life. It is to avoid such. As well- the objective is to save lives, your own sure - but the responsibility that you have as a carrying person is to first determine if you CAN help the situation by acting, and if response to the threat is even warranted by using a firearm.
I see many folks take the CCW ( Concealed Carry ) course, and they come away with a "boldness" - now that they can carry legally, and concealed. This boldness can cause a person to ignore the avoidance of circumstances that previously would cause his gut to tell him to avoid. Now he has "protection"... THIS is a false confidence - and at best could lead to imprisonment ( because if your judgement is skewed to not avoiding questionable circumstance - then your judgement concerning when you are legally allowed and morally o.k. with the use of your firearm. There is no "one answer fits all". The bumper sticker mentality of "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"  shows a cavalier lack of thinking ability.

Sparky, I love my blades, and feel naked with out a knife. It is a tool, and while more multi-purpose than a firearm, it too can be a protective weapon.

Everyone must be comfortable with their decision to carry or not carry. It is serious, and in my opinion - a person that gets a thrill from carrying should NOT be allowed to carry. It is a responsibility that a person should understand, and not take as lightly as I have seen some that do. You are putting yourself in a position of determining someone else's right to live or die.
And - in balance, you have more of a right to continue living, than someone else has to take that right.

Big picute, and many viewpoints. Your decision to carry is MORE than about self-responsibility. Now, you are responsible to the law, and all of society to use sound judgement.

[sparky]

The point about social responsibility should not be muted. The objective of carrying concealed is NOT to take a life. It is to avoid such. As well- the objective is to save lives, your own sure - but the responsibility that you have as a carrying person is to first determine if you CAN help the situation by acting, and if response to the threat is even warranted by using a firearm.
I see many folks take the CCW ( Concealed Carry ) course, and they come away with a "boldness" - now that they can carry legally, and concealed. This boldness can cause a person to ignore the avoidance of circumstances that previously would cause his gut to tell him to avoid. Now he has "protection"... THIS is a false confidence - and at best could lead to imprisonment ( because if your judgement is skewed to not avoiding questionable circumstance - then your judgement concerning when you are legally allowed and morally o.k. with the use of your firearm. There is no "one answer fits all". The bumper sticker mentality of "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"  shows a cavalier lack of thinking ability.

Sparky, I love my blades, and feel naked with out a knife. It is a tool, and while more multi-purpose than a firearm, it too can be a protective weapon.

Everyone must be comfortable with their decision to carry or not carry. It is serious, and in my opinion - a person that gets a thrill from carrying should NOT be allowed to carry. It is a responsibility that a person should understand, and not take as lightly as I have seen some that do. You are putting yourself in a position of determining someone else's right to live or die.
And - in balance, you have more of a right to continue living, than someone else has to take that right.

Big picute, and many viewpoints. Your decision to carry is MORE than about self-responsibility. Now, you are responsible to the law, and all of society to use sound judgement.

this was so profound.  I read it and then read it out loud to my wife.  we whole heartily agree w/ everything you said.  I would like to thank all of you who posted stuff in this thread.  and because of all the stuff I have read and read to my wife from this thread we are going to look into taking a handgun class (this is so against my natural).  we do have a cabin in the woods and some protection up there wouldn't be a bad thing.  you can only do so much w/ a baseball bat and a machete.   

[muebe]

There are also some misconceptions about people having CWPs and murder rates. Some people say that giving everyone a gun will make it like the Wild West! Now I say is that really a bad thing? If a modern city had people carrying weapons like in old western towns would it be a wild city of killing?

How many murders do you suppose these old western towns saw a year? Let's say the bloodiest, gun-slingingest of the famous cattle towns with the cowboys doing quick-draws at high noon every other day. A hundred? More?

How about five? That was the most murders any old-west town saw in any one year. Ever. Most towns averaged about 1.5 murders a year, and not all of those were shooting. You were way more likely to be murdered in Baltimore in 2008 than you were in Tombstone in 1881, the year of the famous gunfight at the OK Corral (body count: three) and the town's most violent year ever.

In 2003 over 500 people were murdered in the city of Los Angeles. And we are more civilized than the old west?

And why is that? IMHO it is because if you were going to use your gun on someone in the Old West that someone will more than likely be carrying one too. That is a deterrent. The weapon was worn on the hip and not concealed. They knew what they would be up against.

Criminals rarely have a registered and legal firearm. And in cities with tight gun controls they can brandish their weapons in confidence knowing it is very unlikely the other person will have a gun themselves.

There are many stories of armed citizens thwarting a criminal during a robbery and saving lives. Unfortunately these stories are not newsworthy and get pushed to the back page or not even talked about.

No matter your opinion on this subject it is important to know the truth about the statistics from both sides to make an educated decision. Some great information has been provided in this thread.