Anyone ever smoke first then brine?

[Smokin Don]

This question first arose for me when researching Kassler Ham. I am sure I read this once on Wiki but now can't find it, where Cassel the German butcher that is believed to have created Kassler Ham smoked it first then brined it. I did find this on ifoodtv.
History of Kassler
 The origins of this smoked meat variant is not well documented but it is widely assumed that the name might have came from a butcher known by the name Cassel and he was based in Berlin. Cassel prepared this preserved meat in late 19th century. Cassel began by smoking a large piece of pork loin and he ripened it in salt brine for a long time. After some days he observed that the meat was free from moisture and it prevented the bacteria from infecting the meat. Cassel found that this meat preservation technique also imparted a very unique taste to the meat. This meat preparation method was soon adopted by many Berliners and it became a national favorite in Germany.

It doesn't exactly say which he did first but leads you to think that. I was going to PM Wing Commander and ask if he knew but thought more would be interested. I hope he will answer this or anyone else that might know the answer.

Has anyone ever heard of any meat that was smoked first then brined? In the 30+ years I have been smoking meat I have never seen a recipe that called for that. Smokin Don

[drholly]

I've not heard of this. But, I would be very interested - sounds like an intriguing concept...

David

[sliding_billy]

Never tried or heard of anyone doing it.  Neat idea though.

[drholly]

This sounds interesting, so I did some digging. Most recipes call for brining then smoking. However, there are several sites, including this one - http://www.ifood.tv/network/kassler - that talk about smoking then brining. Yet, when you drill down to the "recipe" it calls for brining then smoking... 

It's looking like time for an experiment... 

David

[deestafford]

I remember reading something in Cooks Illustrated or Cooks Country about what brining does by doing it first and then marinading and doing it the other way.  I'll try to pull it out of cranial extraction rather than rectal extraction and try to recall.  There is a chemical reaction when you brine first in that it opens the molecules of the meat so that it can better receive the marinade...and I think smoke will do the same thing... and there is osmosis involved.  So, my abdominal sensation is that the brining first will produce a better product.  Now, preservation is another issue of which my opinion would be that of rectal extraction and y'all who know me know I never, ever do that.  Dee

[TentHunteR]

OK, now this has my curiosity piqued BIG TIME!

Smoking first, then brining seems very risky, unless it was smoked at a very low temp (around 40° F).


Hmmm... I am going to have to look into this (I can't help it - I just have to know). 

[Smokin Don]

At BBQ brethren forum they were discussing this subject. Here is the final post by a member about Kassler.
"Well I spoke with a butcher in Berlin today. He said his Kassler rezept calls for brining first and then smoked. He said traditionally the meat used to be pickled afterward but because of refrigeration that step was no longer needed."

Schaller & Weber, a meat producer in NY was started by Ferdinand Schaller he began his career in 1918 as an apprentice butcher and sausage maker in Stuttgart, Germany. In 1927 he came to America. The description of their Kassler Rippchen says "This is a loin of pork which has been cured, smoked and cooked."

Don

[TentHunteR]

Thanks Don!

To me that makes sense, especially from a safety standpoint, to brine cure it first, then smoke.

I think I'll head to the butcher tomorrow and pick up a loin!


Cliff

[Smokin Don]

Thanks Don!

To me that makes sense, especially from a safety standpoint, to brine cure it first, then smoke.

I think I'll head to the butcher tomorrow and pick up a loin!

Cliff

I am with you Cliff, I would be afraid to try the smoke then brine. When you do yours a 4 day brine should be plenty if you inject the loin some. I only did my first one 60 hours and was good, looked like it cured all over. I heated some last night for my supper and makes a killer ham sandwich! Don