Author Topic: EVOL VS Coconut Oil  (Read 6619 times)

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Offline spuds

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2014, 02:15:33 PM »
Good subject, and I may have to change my ways.  I started to use Canola oil because I thought it was healthier.  According to the Canadian article, I was wrong.  I like to deep fry periodically, so what would be the best oil to use to be healthy and have a high smoke temperature?  Peanut Oil?
If I can find a pure source  of quality Lard,Im going with that.Its very popular along with peanut oil for stir fry and deep frying in Asia.My pig is due any day,we are going to render our lard and I think I might get the lard and skin from 2 other pigs at same time,see if the person who raised ours wants hers.

I was raised using bacon fat,but believed it was white death per the experts,now of course we find out it isnt at all.Time to start using it more.
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Offline spuds

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2014, 05:15:39 PM »
If a high carb,WITH EXERCISE,that will work,and if it works for you,thats great.It works for a lot of active people,I dont deny it.

But it doesnt mean its a low weight diet,it isnt.Hence the obesity epidemic that needs to be addressed,it isnt just how much you eat,if you have to starve yourself or not feel satiated to keep weight down on carbs,or eat more carbs to meet your bodies needs,and you arent doing 30 minutes of cardio a day,your wt is going up.

For starters,lets define 'healthy' Is it ideal body wt? Is it muscles and strength? Most folks would say so. Macronutrients.

But is it immune health too,IMO thats a critical aspect,what fights disease,repairs cells,protects from autoimmune disease.Thats Micronutrients.Vegetables.

I feel health involves all of the above. Therefore,for the rabid Paleo the only issue I have with it is if you arent getting micronutrients (vegetables) too,it is not boosting or supporting your immune system,a big failure in this aspect.So Paleos,listen to your Mom and eat your vegetables.

A big failure nowadays is the obesity epidemic.

Ask any Paleo and almost to a tee they will tell you changing from a high carb low fat diet to high fat and low carb,wt melted away,no other changes,they DO lose wt.

So Im stuck on high carbs is a weighty diet.

Next argument is 'a calorie is a calorie' Only it isnt. Why do Paleos lose wt when they are eating the same number of calories a Carbo is? It appears that the body metabolizes carbs differently from proteins and fats.

Here is a study explaining the effects
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9

Some excerpts.....

Three groups were studied: A low carbohydrate group (LoCHO = 1800 kcal for men; 1500 kcal for women), a low fat group (LoFat, 1800 and 1500); a third group also consumed a low carbohydrate diet but an additional 300 kcalories were provided (LoCHO+300, 2100 and 1800). The order of average amount of weight lost was LoCHO = 23 lbs, LoCHO+300 = 20 lbs LoFat = 17 lbs. This work received a good deal of attention in the popular press. Media reports, however, included comments of experts that "It doesn't make sense, does it?" "It violates the laws of thermodynamics. No one has ever found any miraculous metabolic effects." ([5]). If this is an accurate quotation, it is odd indeed. Miraculous, or otherwise, a metabolic effect was found.

The seriousness of the obesity epidemic suggests that we attack it with all the means at our disposal. Metabolic advantage with low carbohydrate diets is well established in the literature. It does not always occur but the important point is that it can occur. To ignore its possibilities and to not investigate the precise conditions under which it appears would be cutting ourselves off from potential benefit. The extent to which metabolic advantage will have significant impact in treating obesity is unknown and it is widely said in studies of low carbohydrate diets that "more work needs to be done." However, if the misconception is perpetuated that there is a violation of physical laws, that work will not be done, and if done, will go unpublished due to editorial resistance. Attacking the obesity epidemic will involve giving up many old ideas that have not been productive. "A calorie is a calorie" might be a good place to start.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 05:26:15 PM by spuds »
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Offline teesquare

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2014, 05:52:21 PM »
Spuds:
I was in the car earlier, and on NPR - there was an interesting interview during a program about health/obesity in America, etc...It was about a recent book called:Fat Chance by Dr. Robert H. Lustig M.D.

I listened tot eh entire interview. It made complete sense to me. His basic premise is that there are 8 things wrong with the current American diet. No.# 1 is the amount of sugars in processed foods, and how this has been a response to the medical community pushing for lower fat in our diets. The sugars according to him are far more threatening to our health.

I am going to order the book....His explanation was that convincing - and far more detailed than I can do justice.
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Offline spuds

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2014, 06:50:22 PM »
Fructose has been a disaster in our foods.I dont understand why it has to be in most everything.I ordered Sally Fallons book from the Canada link,see if she has anything else Im missing.Also supposed to have recipes,and love to cook.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 07:00:51 PM by spuds »
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Offline Scallywag

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EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2014, 08:44:05 PM »

Spuds:
I was in the car earlier, and on NPR - there was an interesting interview during a program about health/obesity in America, etc...It was about a recent book called:Fat Chance by Dr. Robert H. Lustig M.D.

I listened tot eh entire interview. It made complete sense to me. His basic premise is that there are 8 things wrong with the current American diet. No.# 1 is the amount of sugars in processed foods, and how this has been a response to the medical community pushing for lower fat in our diets. The sugars according to him are far more threatening to our health.

I am going to order the book....His explanation was that convincing - and far more detailed than I can do justice.
I agree there is a problem in America.. After spending a week there I was blown away by the amount of severely obese people. Canada does not seem to have the same problem.. I wonder if it has something to do with the limited number of fast food joints that we have? Sorry not trying to start a debate...
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Offline muebe

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2014, 08:45:42 PM »
What you are failing to miss is that when you exercise you also create muscle that will allow you to burn more calories even when your not exercising.

A person who is getting regular exercise will burn more calories just sitting there then one who is not.

I am not saying loading up on carbs is good. If your an athlete then it is sustained energy that works. There is a balance to everything. But completely cutting out carbs from your diet will work but will cause other issues IMHO.

Look. No one I know went from a healthy weight to obesity in just a month or two. It is years of bad eating habits and little to no physical activity. And everyone has a different metabolism so I know some people gain weight easier than others. I am very leery of the quick weight loss diets and their side effects.

The show the biggest loser is an example. There are people who go in the show and lose a tremendous amount of weight in a short time. Sadly many of them gain it back. That is with exercise and dieting. It is too extreme IMHO and the people end up bouncing back.

To me the proper way of managing weight is a moderate amount of exercise and portion control. Not starving yourself but you can weigh your portions out. Avoid that dessert everyday. Just pick a day to treat yourself.  Then the weight will come off over time. I lost 35lbs over about one year doing this.

You can eat all your favorite things just reduce the portion amount.
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Offline teesquare

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2014, 08:50:09 PM »
No debate Scally...Yes - I think that is part of the problem. And the mount of  processed foods in general - containing a tremendous amount of sugars, trans and partially hydrogenated fats, etc.

I am trying to get rid of anything that is frozen in a box as a prepared food, or in boxes in general, like snacks, cereal etc.....And just get back to fresh fruits, veggies, and meat.

I can add to them what I want - and what I know is not polluted with junk. ;)

Portion control is a must, and a balance of exercise is always positive. But - continued research shows that even low level - and brief periods of exercise are often enough to get many folks back on the road to recovery from really bad diets and their effects.
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Offline Scallywag

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EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2014, 08:55:10 PM »

No debate Scally...Yes - I think that is part of the problem. And the mount of  processed foods in general - containing a tremendous amount of sugars, trans and partially hydrogenated fats, etc.

I am trying to get rid of anything that is frozen in a box as a prepared food, or in boxes in general, like snacks, cereal etc.....And just get back to fresh fruits, veggies, and meat.

I can add to them what I want - and what I know is not polluted with junk. ;)

Portion control is a must, and a balance of exercise is always positive. But - continued research shows that even low level - and brief periods of exercise are often enough to get many folks back on the road to recovery from really bad diets and their effects.
I totally agree.. I sit at a desk for 8 hours a day and eat only home cooked food with minimal processed food. I run on an elliptical and work out on my bowflex 3 times a week. I'm probably 20 pounds over my ideal weight but it's all in my belly.. For that I blame the beer.
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Offline muebe

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2014, 09:14:21 PM »

Spuds:
I was in the car earlier, and on NPR - there was an interesting interview during a program about health/obesity in America, etc...It was about a recent book called:Fat Chance by Dr. Robert H. Lustig M.D.

I listened tot eh entire interview. It made complete sense to me. His basic premise is that there are 8 things wrong with the current American diet. No.# 1 is the amount of sugars in processed foods, and how this has been a response to the medical community pushing for lower fat in our diets. The sugars according to him are far more threatening to our health.

I am going to order the book....His explanation was that convincing - and far more detailed than I can do justice.
I agree there is a problem in America.. After spending a week there I was blown away by the amount of severely obese people. Canada does not seem to have the same problem.. I wonder if it has something to do with the limited number of fast food joints that we have? Sorry not trying to start a debate...

No debate from me either. There are so many overweight people in this country!

As far as the fast food places we have one at every corner. But many of them do offer healthier options now. Wendy's for example has some good salads. So does Jack in the box. I have had them and they are pretty good. Most people choose to have the loaded calorie burger instead. And that is fine if you get exercise. If not it is a recipe for disaster. Especially if you eat fast food everyday.
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Offline spuds

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2014, 09:45:44 PM »
Tee,Mercola has an article that features Dr Lustig,and the fructose,fats and refined carbs laid out  with many sources mentioned,very good article and I agree with it almost entirely,our guidelines are horrible.Lots of good info,hopefully someday we will get past the dollars and agendas and get reliable info.

Im not against all carbs,nor carb free at all,that wouldnt be reasonable at all...but refined carbs just arent healthy and we are bombarded with them,and the truth is coming out now(not that it wasnt known,just not reported),thanks in large part to the internet giving us a forum to find it.It isnt found in mainstream media who cowtow to advertisers and their agendas.

Until then,and the point is made there,its up to US to learn,because what we are spoonfed isnt reliable at all.Dr Fuhrman postulates you should take the dietary pyramid and turn it upside down,and more and more are saying thats spot on.

Enjoy the article,not long and a good read,and not all Mercola like a lot of his stuff.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/11/04/saturated-fat-intake.aspx#!
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Offline spuds

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2014, 09:55:53 PM »

Spuds:
I was in the car earlier, and on NPR - there was an interesting interview during a program about health/obesity in America, etc...It was about a recent book called:Fat Chance by Dr. Robert H. Lustig M.D.

I listened tot eh entire interview. It made complete sense to me. His basic premise is that there are 8 things wrong with the current American diet. No.# 1 is the amount of sugars in processed foods, and how this has been a response to the medical community pushing for lower fat in our diets. The sugars according to him are far more threatening to our health.

I am going to order the book....His explanation was that convincing - and far more detailed than I can do justice.
I agree there is a problem in America.. After spending a week there I was blown away by the amount of severely obese people. Canada does not seem to have the same problem.. I wonder if it has something to do with the limited number of fast food joints that we have? Sorry not trying to start a debate...
Not really a debate,more of us putting out our opinions from what we know,or think we know,and sharing and learning.When it comes to our health,what YOU think is right is right for you,period.For now we still have that right.For now....

I think when we say fast food,I also refer to packaged processed foods in my take,but the fast food joints,HORRIBLE. If you want to see go to the calorie counter site and type in the fast food joints,like Mcd's or jackinthebox,frightening!Run your mouse over Big mac or whatever,it has a basic nutritional breakdown,scary!

http://caloriecount.about.com/flog/search?searchpro=McDonalds&type=&g=&pq=Taco+Bell&at=

http://caloriecount.about.com/flog/search?searchpro=McDonalds&type=&g=&pq=Taco+Bell&at=
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Offline smoker pete

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2014, 02:26:36 AM »
I agree there is a problem in America.. After spending a week there I was blown away by the amount of severely obese people. Canada does not seem to have the same problem.. I wonder if it has something to do with the limited number of fast food joints that we have? Sorry not trying to start a debate...

I think it has to do with the amount of snow you guys get ... and all that snow shoveling !!!  :D  :D  8) 

When I was a teenager in New Hampshire back in the late 60s I used to shovel a lot of snow and made me some good $$$ ...
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Offline spuds

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2014, 04:42:27 PM »

To me the proper way of managing weight is a moderate amount of exercise and portion control. Not starving yourself but you can weigh your portions out. Avoid that dessert everyday. Just pick a day to treat yourself.  Then the weight will come off over time. I lost 35lbs over about one year doing this.

You can eat all your favorite things just reduce the portion amount.
You got it!My thoughts exactly.Just dont put in more calories than you expend,no voodoo there. What got me was not knowing what i was putting in.And when my metabolism(thyroid issues millions of us have) was changing and not catching it,really nailed me.

Your point on biggest loser is spot on,diet and loss is fine,but if you wont alter your lifestyle afterwards and balance calories and activity,failure!!

Speaking of peanut oil,friend is gluten intolerant.Drove 30 miles to get peanut oil for deep fryer,got home and it was mixed with soy,completely useless for her,watch those ingredients,dirty trick in my book,and as noted earlier,I knew the olive oil mix trick,but geeze,that was the pits for them.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 04:52:15 PM by spuds »
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Offline spuds

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2014, 04:49:27 PM »
Quote

As far as the fast food places we have one at every corner. But many of them do offer healthier options now. Wendy's for example has some good salads. So does Jack in the box. I have had them and they are pretty good. Most people choose to have the loaded calorie burger instead. And that is fine if you get exercise. If not it is a recipe for disaster. Especially if you eat fast food everyday.

One that surprised me was how GOOD Wendys chili is healthwise,loaded with beans and the meat is boiled,fat poured off and into the beans,blew my mind when you look at most fast food entree's they are disaster,and the sauces they put on,insane calories.

Found that on a thread about Wendys chili clone recipes,in comments,gotta love the web,former employees even gave recipes,its like a #10 can red beans,#10 can chile beans....heehee ,like cooking for the Navy!
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Offline Las Vegan Cajun

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Re: EVOL VS Coconut Oil
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2014, 04:52:23 PM »
If we all could be like Michael Phelps.   ::)

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