Let's Talk BBQ
General => General Discussion & Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: sparky on August 13, 2013, 01:07:11 PM
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well, last night I was going to cook chicken halves. i asked my wife if i could use my WSM w/ no wood or my mak pellet grill? she said she didn't care as long as I use the weber kettle (its funny has she said she didn't care what I used and then told me exactly what to use. been married along time). i asked her if she even liked the food coming off my pellet grill? she said for the last 3 1/2 years of using pellet grills that the food was just ok. what? just ok? why the h#ll didn't you tell me you didn't like the food. she said that the pellet grill made me happy when i used it and she was good w/ that (what a good wife). she told me for the last 30 years i have cooked on a weber kettle, WSM or a brinkman and the food always tasted good. we don't use gas in our house. just charcoal or pellets. a good friend of mine brought it to my attention that pellet grills produce a very clean smoke taste on your food compared to cooking w/ charcoal and wood for more of a smoky flavor. got me thinking about selling my pellet grills and just getting some more kettles and WSM's. i have always loved my pellet grills for the ease of use and i think the food comes off taste pretty good but the food coming off my WSM has better flavor. do a lot of you that use charcoal and pellets like the flavor coming off your pellet grills?
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I do not use a pellet grill but have had plenty of food coming off of them, and I most definitely prefer charcoal/wood.
P.S. My wife has no reservations telling me exactly what she prefers (not a lot of smoke and mild rub) but also understands that I cook for the enjoyment of it and that I like an aggressive smoke profile (along with an aggressive black pepper profile). Wives are great!
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This past Saturday, we thawed out a nice thick rib eye steak. I went outside and fired up the gas grill and temp started rising. I go in the house and retrieve the steak which she had marinading all afternoon and the temperature was dropping in the grill. WTH! I am out of gas. Only in the propane tank.
So, I uncovered my Yoder Cheyenne Wood Smoker with the offset firebox. I loaded the fire box with Royal Oak Lump Charcoal, took the blow torch and fired it up. I retrieved my inset grill for the firebox and placed it into position. In 20 minutes those coals were white hot. I tossed on the steak and using my ludicrous speed teal thermapen, pulled the steak when it was 130 degrees internal temperature.
My wife, who has always been a proponent of the gas grill for fast cooks and would not let me get rid of it, now wants her steaks cooked on the offset firebox with charcoal. Go figure.
Ed
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If my family didn't revolt last Thanksgiving (it sure aint fun being blamed for ruining Thanksgiving dinner), I would still be using charcoal. I miss the flavor, they don't, I do........I like the flexibility of the pellet grill for cooking certain items in the 300-350 range but I have found out the pellet grill is not the one hit wonder I would only want to have on my patio......I am thinking of getting a small charcoal cooker just for my food.............. ::)
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Charcoal or pellets both provide excellent flavor. There is some slight convenience advantage to pellets. I and my family do not like the oversmoked, "creosote" flavor that you get with a lot of white smoke, so pellets produce just the right amount. Occasionally, I'll add chips or chunks to the charcoaler, but very carefully because it doesn't take much.
Hub
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I was a gas grill guy up until a few years ago. I have three charcoal cookers and one pellet cooker. The gas grill is to heat up the occasional hot dog nowadays.
Most of my cooking is done on the Weber Kettle. At least three to four times a week, for the simple weeknight dinners.
I love the ease of the pellet cooker for making roast beef, pastrami and ribs. It gives me enough smoke flavor as it is.
In fact, I don't use any wood anymore in my WSM either. I prefer the charcoal flavor alone, my wife does too.
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Might as well stoke the flames, so to speak - I'm of the school that doesn't think charcoal by itself imparts flavor at all. I've pretty much always felt that way and had my opinion (which of course is more correct than anyone else's). I'll stick with my smoker or use my IR gassers and add smoke as required.
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I do like chicken done on charcoal but for most other cooks I prefer my pellet smoker, a lot less mess and fuss. The low and slow of a pellet smoker was made for us old foggies! ;D Don
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Sparky,
My wife also prefers charcoal over my pellet grill, at least on those things that get cooked much faster. I went to cook a steak the other day and she said, "you're using the Weber, right?" Yes dear. She "allows" me to cook the pulled pork or pulled beef on my MAK. Basically, if I can cook something on the MAK, or Weber, or the PBC, I am good.
Art
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Love my Weber kettles & WSM. Love my pellet grill. Each has its place and time to be used.
This topic came up just after lunch yesterday when I gave my boss a couple of pieces of comp chicken and three ribs from last weekend's competition. (greasing the wheels a little never hurts!)
Anyway, his first comment was that the ribs had a more pronounced smoke flavor than the last comp ribs I brought him. These were cooked on the WSM as opposed to the pellet cooker ribs I brought him from a previous comp. He liked the smokier ribs better, and I do too, but there's something to be said for the convenience of pellet cookers.
My family has no preference, but they have mentioned the smokier flavor of anything cooked over charcoal w/ wood vs. pellet cooker foods.
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My wife is not a "smoked" meat fan. Nor is she a BBQ snob.
But, she will tell you flatly that she prefers the flavor of chicken cooked in the PBC - And I agree - over any over method. It has a distinct flavor. Is it the charcoal - or the drippings on the charcoal that cause the flavor? Who cares?
What we do know is that it tastes great. I see no controversy in that..... ;D
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My wife is not a "smoked" meat fan. Nor is she a BBQ snob.
But, she will tell you flatly that she prefers the flavor of chicken cooked in the PBC - And I agree - over any over method. It has a distinct flavor. Is it the charcoal - or the drippings on the charcoal that cause the flavor? Who cares?
What we do know is that it tastes great. I see no controversy in that..... ;D
Have to agree with that!
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The PBC and UDS type smokers that let the meat drip directly on the coals, have a special flavor all their own. I think the drippings hitting the coals create a "Grease Fog" that adds another layer of flavor to the meat..........
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why the OldSmokey is a better cooker than the Weber
3" more inches between the fire and the grate
and a whole lot more room under the lid
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/OSmokey_003_zpse104004a.jpg)
I would have to differ w/ ya capt. i also don't think the old smokey is a better cooker than the weber. 3" extra inches between the fire and grate don't mean much to me. just move the meat over to the other side of the kettle. i also like that the weber is a baked on finish and love the ash catcher on them. got to love the wheels too. now come on capt, you have to admit the weber is a good grill or why else would they be selling so many of them. and before i came to this forum i have never seen a old smokey before or heard of them. i do think your is pretty cool and have seen great food coming off of it. is one better than the other. maybe but i think we use the grills / smokers because were comfortable w/ the equipment.
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I enjoy cooking with charcoal, gas, electric, and pellets. I think most people have their favorite way(s) of cooking outdoors, and I'm no exception - there are different uses for different reasons:
- I like to use the pellet smoker in the winter because it is a bit cold for my old electric unit. I also like to smoke various meats on the pellet unit and then finish them in the indoor oven during winter because in addition to helping warm the kitchen, it also smells wonderfully smoky ;D
- I have a tiny Big Green Egg, and use lump charcoal in it - this unit is great when the wife and I want a cozy grillin' event for just the two of us, right next to the egg. Besides, it is great for using in the RV. Using lump charcoal in the tiny egg is for me almost like being next to a campfire - mesmerizing to look at the glowing coals, slight flame, and developing ash
- There is no substitute in my recipe book for electric when smoking salmon and making beef jerky - I done both of those for lots of years, and no one has ever complained. (You want honest opinions of your food? ...serve it to your family ;D )
I just recently started using a Bradley electric, and I'll use it in the winter for great cold smoked items like lox and cheese, but from many comments I've read, I suspect that the heat loss (due to the sub-zero temperatures we often get) will be too great to do hot cooking.
I've an SRG on order because of the stories I've read on this fine forum, and am very much looking forward to doing a turkey this Thanksgiving, as well as many other IR seared treats throughout winter.
... yep, the old cliche is definitely true; there's a proper tool for every job ... at least, that's what I keep telling my wife when I want a new toy ;D
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sparky
the whole point of the extra 3" is I don't have to do chicken in-direct
I cook it direct over the coals just like the PBC
the direct cook is how we get the crisp skin
you don't get crisp skin on chicken if you cook it in-direct
my aluminum Char-Broil has the same set up as a Weber with the fire grate 5" below the grill
if I cook chicken direct over the coals at 5" I get flair-ups and burnt skin just like a Weber
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/CBcharcoal_001.jpg)
and I can do a whole lot more with 12" under the lid than the 6" the Weber gives you
I can't do stand-up chicken in a Weber or in my aluminum Char-Broil
not enough clearance under the lid
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/OS_chicken_002_zps1d0b36ed.jpg)
and I have a lot more room to cook ribs in a rack than you do on a Weber
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/OS_SLribs_006_zpsb07bcc68.jpg)
I don't care what it looks like. I care how good a cooker it is
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these are all excellent points capt. I have to admit the food you produce is top notch in my opinion off the old smokey. maybe I will get one and check it out. i'm never to old to learn from ppl who are wiser than me.
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I’m a huge proponent of head to head competition. I just don’t think you can eat something today and can compare it to something you ate 2 weeks ago. If you want to know how pellet grilled chicken compares to charcoaled, cook both and serve in a blind test. This isn’t a big deal and requires only that you use 2 cookers instead of one. It’s the only way you will get a meaningful comparison in my opinion. And I’d be the first to say that pellet and charcoal produce a superior product to a gas grill but I still use a gasser; it depends on the food and situation variables. Personally, I’m glad I’m not limited to one fuel source or cooker. Think of the monotony!
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Now that you guys have peaked my interest, what is out there that is strictly charcoal than can be used as both direct heat steak producer and indirect heat smoker. Or, I can continue using the firebox for direct hea on the Yoder Cheyenne. I have been looking at Weber, some type of Komoda or egg, or what.
What are some the options out there? Can you convert a Weber kettle to indirect heat or a smokey joe?
Let's hear from some of the experts on this because I think that I got the wife where I want here about getting rid of the gas grill.
Thanks,
Ed
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I'm not an expert - but I know what I like. I like my Weber Performer - 22 1/2" kettle. This one has the built in gas starter - gotta say it's pretty cool.
I grew up on kettles and when I could afford a Weber, that's what I went with. That original Weber lasted almost 20 years - actually, it's still going in my brother's back yard. It's easy to do direct and indirect cooking - easy to keep a pretty steady temp once you get the vents set. I can add a little smoke flavor with some chips or chunks of wood. There's even a device called the "smokenator" that has had some good reviews. The rotisserie works well and fits perfectly. It's a piece of cake to clean and I have never needed maintenance. It gets plenty hot to make good pizzas, especially if you add some wood to the charcoal.
I do have several other cookers, as many here say - there are devices that work better for different things - mostly, they are just fun. If I had to have just one grill / cooker (and I'd fight that pretty darn hard ;) ;D) it would be my Weber.
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Let me add one element that is a major concern for what I select. I am very clumsy and I cannot bend over very well. If I do, I fall. So I need something that will stand on its own and it must be sturdy that I can address while on my feet.
Even the WSM is so low, I could not do it.
Thanks,
Ed
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Just did a search on the internet at my local Lowe's. i get 10 per cent off of anything that I purchase there.
Here are some options.
Char Griller Komado like smoker $299
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/Chargriller-1.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/Chargriller-1.jpg.html)
Weber one touch 22 1/2 inch $149
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/wegeronetoudh.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/wegeronetoudh.jpg.html)
Weber one touch 27 inch $159
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/weberonetouch27.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/weberonetouch27.jpg.html)
And then my personal favorite weighing in at 255 lbs. the Yoder Abilene (their smallest grill) $599.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/abilene16_01.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/abilene16_01.jpg.html)
Any suggestions?
Ed
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I hate trying to give advice about buying a grill. I think the whole thing about cooking and especially doing it outside is so personal, that I can tell you what I've used and liked. I can tell you why. But I would never feel comfortable about saying this is what YOU should use. Just look at the differences between my Weber and Capt Jack's Old Smokey. We can both give the reasons we like our respective cookers, but they are obviously very personal. Although I do have to give Capt Jack points for price (and of course looks ;) ;D)
I do think you make a good point re: your comfort and that needs to be front and center in your decision. I've never tried the Green Egg type cookers, but there are some on this forum that swear by them and can give better advice. I have to say I really like the simplicity and last foreverness of the Weber. Probably much like the Old Smokey.
Don't know if this is helping at all. I like the Weber for:
- Easy to use
- Easy to learn
- Easy to control
- Easy to clean
- Versatile
- Rugged - lasts forever
- Lot's of accessories if you want to go that way
Good luck - thinking about a new grill is almost as much fun for me as using it... ;)
Cheers,
David
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I'm not an expert - but I know what I like.
1) I grew up on kettles and when I could afford a Weber, that's what I went with. sparky: me too.
2) That original Weber lasted almost 20 years. sparky: mine last only 18 years.
3) It's easy to do direct and indirect cooking - easy to keep a pretty steady temp once you get the vents set. sparky: real easy to cook at any temp. and there is a lots of room for cooking indirect / direct. steak, chicken I cook indirect then flame on. perfecto.
4) I can add a little smoke flavor with some chips or chunks of wood. There's even a device called the "smokenator" that has had some good reviews. sparky: I just added chucks of wood too. easy pezy. I thought the smokenator thing was a joke.
5) The rotisserie works well and fits perfectly. sparky: I have cooked on my rotisserie ribs, chicken, fish, veges, hot dogs. love the rotisserie.
6) It's a piece of cake to clean and I have never needed maintenance. sparky: I don't think cleaning a grill could get any easier that cleaning a weber. no mess of fuss getting rid of ash.
7) It gets plenty hot. sparky: true tat. I've burn a lot of different foods.
If I had to have just one grill / cooker it would be my Weber. sparky: me too.
this is so my story also. for my high school graduation my dad asked me what I wanted. watch, money or whatever. told him I wanted a weber kettle like his. that's what I got. 8)
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Ed,
I don't do a lot of grilling, but I use my offset when I do. Grate in the fire box for searing and direct or indirect coal in the smoker for longer high heat stuff.
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Some of my best briskets have come off a 22.5 Weber Kettle. Brisket on one side and one charcoal basket on the other side......that sucker will run at 250 all day long and you wont go though a ton of fuel either.........
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Good post! I like the smoke flavor I get from my Mak and I also love the ease of it, but I have to agree with ya Sparky.. nothing beats the taste of food over charcoal! I have to admit I am starting to like my BGE better than the MAK.. I just dont always have the time to get it going and tend to it.
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Lest we not forget a very important principle in outdoor cooking folks:
I have had awful food cooked on the most expensive equipment, and fantastic food cooked on the cheapest grill...
It ain't the cooker...it's THE COOK..... ;D
Knowing how each unit works - intimately - and knowing the "personality" of it makes ALL of the difference.
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Lest we not forget a very important principle in outdoor cooking folks:
I have had awful food cooked on the most expensive equipment, and fantastic food cooked on the cheapest grill...
It ain't the cooker...it's THE COOK..... ;D
Knowing how each unit works - intimately - and knowing the "personality" of it makes ALL of the difference.
A good cook can cook good on a rock... ;) :D
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Sparky. Didn't you do a rib cook off a while back and the fam liked the ribs comming off the mak the best?
I do love my mak but it is really all I have other than my cheap cheap hotdog gasser. I would love a webber or Mmaybe go with captain pick. Would have one but he house is eating up all my money.
On a side note I feel like sparky painting. 1am, 1am, midnight, 11pm, and called it early at 7 last night. Still have 3 rooms to go.
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Best chicken I make is from my PBC (Charcoal)
Best ribs are from my Memphis (Pellets)
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muebe - I agree re: the PBC, in fact I am making a chicken on my PBC for dinner tonight! I mentioned the Weber if I could only have one cooker.
I enjoy ALL of my cookers - each has a unique attribute that I enjoy. And, enjoy is the key word for me when it comes to cooking. It's about having fun creating a meal that I hope my family and friends will enjoy.
I am totally convinced that if I picked up an Old Smokey - I would have a blast cooking with it. To me it has nothing to do with the "cost or value" of the cooker - it's all about having some fun and making something people want to eat.
That's why I say - A good cook can cook good on a rock! I don't claim to be a good cook - but I have cooked some good food on a rock!
Cheers,
David
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I have cooked some food that turned out as hard as a rock :( ;)
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Cooking on a rock - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCkaPOgm_Qg#at=40
I have a piece of slate I've kept for several years for doing this type of cook. I've also used field rock (typically granite) - just building the fire around the rock. I usually build a good fire and let the rock get hot and blow any moisture it might have stored. Then let the fire / rock cool to the point where cooking makes sense. When camping we usually build the fire early to "season the rock" then re-stoke the fire later to cook. If you want to get really "fancy" you can bank the fire around different rocks to different degrees - let's you cook various parts of the meal at different temps.
It's a blast to cook on a hot rock!
Cheers,
David
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Alright, never being known to be patient which is one of my biggest faults especially with respect to impulsive buying, I visited Lowes today and purchased a Weber Gold one touch for $134.00 after my 10 per cent discount. They only had two left. I also purchased a cover and a set of charcoal baskets to go with it. Looks like all Weber accessories are depleted. I wanted to get a rotisserie but they don't carry that accessory. So, this will be fired up on Sunday for a family dinner where hamburgers and hot dogs will be served.
The older I get, the more impulsive that I get.
Do you guys know of any place on the internet where you can purchase Weber accessories for a discount? I really would like to get that rotisserie. I have visions of a chicken spinning around until it is golden brown with nice crisp skin. Is that direct or indirect heat? Now I have something else to learn about. I haven't even learned enough about the wood smoker. Compared to the wood smoker and now the Weber, the pellet smoker is viewed as quite simplistic. I am going to publish a book about the pellet smoker: smoking for dummies like me using the pellet smoker.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/wegeronetoudh.jpg)
Thanks for all your input. This fits my needs as I will not have to bend down or over or try to kneel. And it is, at least, waist height. My hope is that I would like to be able to cook chicken golden brown like Captain Jack on his Smokey Joe.
Ed
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I was going to kelp you make / buy a charcoal basket to use the main chamber of your offset a charcoal grill but I was TOO LATE ???
However for an impulse buy a weber gold is as good as it gets ::)
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I suppose I look at the equation differently Ed. What is the value of the human resource in the "which cooker " decision?
Because...I think you could persuade Jack to grab you a scratch and dent special...you supply the meat - and he could likely be coerced into bringing you an Old Smoky - and providing a demonstration cook! :D :D :D
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The old adage is: you can't take it with you. So.......I think I'll have some fun and spend what I want now. And, thank God, my wife is very supportive knowing all the other things I could do and get into trouble.
I am just lucky to be here and for what remaining time that I have, I intend to enjoy it. When I get this dam hip replaced and I can walk again like a normal person, I am going to hit every trout stream in the Rocky Mountains from the Canadian Border to the Southern Rockies in Northern New Mexico.
Ed
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Go get em, Ed :) :)
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Ed,
If there is ANYTHING I would rather do than cook outdoors - it's fly fishing. If you ever need or want a partner to explore those streams, just give me a call.
David
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Sparky. Didn't you do a rib cook off a while back and the fam liked the ribs comming off the mak the best?
On a side note I feel like sparky painting. 1am, 1am, midnight, 11pm, and called it early at 7 last night. Still have 3 rooms to go.
yes I did. well see it that holes up tonight. cooking ribs on the WSM and the mak 1 star. 275° and cruising.
I just spent the last 2 1/2 weeks pressure washing, priming (3 coats of elastomeric), paint (2 coats). my hands are really sore. :(
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Ed,
If there is ANYTHING I would rather do than cook outdoors - it's fly fishing. If you ever need or want a partner to explore those streams, just give me a call.
David
Well, David, I might take you up on that offer and we can start in Montana, perhaps the Bitteroot or the Madison, or something other.
That would be great.
Ed
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Ed,
If there is ANYTHING I would rather do than cook outdoors - it's fly fishing. If you ever need or want a partner to explore those streams, just give me a call.
David
If there is anything I would rather do than cook outdoors it would involve a certain lady and I would not invite any of you, but fishing is good too.
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A good cook can cook good on a rock... ;) :D
a good cook will smoke the rock until it hits 205° and then pull it. :)
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Ed,
If there is ANYTHING I would rather do than cook outdoors - it's fly fishing. If you ever need or want a partner to explore those streams, just give me a call.
David
If there is anything I would rather do than cook outdoors it would involve a certain lady and I would not invite any of you, but fishing is good too.
Touche!
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Ed,
If there is ANYTHING I would rather do than cook outdoors - it's fly fishing. If you ever need or want a partner to explore those streams, just give me a call.
David
Well, David, I might take you up on that offer and we can start in Montana, perhaps the Bitteroot or the Madison, or something other.
That would be great.
Ed
Ed,
Let me know. I've fished the Bitterroot and several small rivers in Montana - that's a great place to start!
David
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Sparky. Didn't you do a rib cook off a while back and the fam liked the ribs comming off the mak the best?
On a side note I feel like sparky painting. 1am, 1am, midnight, 11pm, and called it early at 7 last night. Still have 3 rooms to go.
yes I did. well see it that holes up tonight. cooking ribs on the WSM and the mak 1 star. 275° and cruising.
I just spent the last 2 1/2 weeks pressure washing, priming (3 coats of elastomeric), paint (2 coats). my hands are really sore. :(
Well who won?
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Mr Sparky 1,
Having owned or cooked on about every type of grill or smoker out there, I do prefer charcoal or wood cooking or smoking over all other fuels for my outside or BBQ type of cooking or smoking. It just tastes better. However, I do think many other cookers can come close to that great charcoal or wood taste with a sharp cook or pitmaster. As for comparing a pellet cooker to something like a WSM, in my opinion, it's a no-brainer as the WSM or even a Weber kettle can produce food that is better tasting than any pellet cooker with any optional device to produce more smoke. And I do own two great and one lousy pellet cooker and have cooked on one of them for over 12 years. I sure like them for convenience and Winter cooking and smoking but for real taste, I will always roll one of my charcoal or wood cookers out to my cooking patio for some fine flavored product.
Dave
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You all can argue this till the cows come home. I would like to point out that Big Poppa was the overall winner at the American Royal invitational last year cooking on a pellet smoker! Don
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Smokin Don,
That is sure a great accomplishment for the Big Poppa Team or any BBQ team.
I guess if we are pointing something out, I would also like to say that this same team finished in 99th place the next day in the bigger American Royal event and didn't even qualify for the World Championship (Jack Daniels) in Lynchburg, Tn. later in the month.