Let's take some time to remember those killed and injured in Orlando.

[Big Dawg]

Such a tragedy, this could easily happen in any country I'm afraid. Every country in the free world needs to step up, drop the PC crap and address this issue as a top priority.

Sadly, that is never going to happen and this is how you know it:

I will stop now before I overstep the bounds.

Prayers to the victims & their families.





BD

[DWard51]

Not to diminish the events of this week, but how often we forget real history (or it's revised by the politically correct).

Actually the worst mass shooting in US history was not in Orlando this past week.  It was in 1890 when the US Army came to disarm native Americans and collect their firearms at Wounded Knee, SD.  Estimates put 300 as the number killed (likely many more).  So the same federal government who perpetrated that act now has a leader and a potential future leader calling for more gun restrictions on the public and a prohibition on the public owning firearms (while they are surrounded by people with guns to protect "them").  Strange that the US revolutionary war's first skirmish was over the British attempt to disarm the colonist.  Seems to be a recurring theme about disarming the public.

It's not guns, it's the idiots holding the guns that are the problem.  Deal with the problem.  Be it lunatics or fanatics, they are the problem, not the gun that you may own to protect yourself from these same lunatics.

Oh, and it's 49 murdered, not 50.  The gunman should not count as "murdered" as he was the author of his own misfortune.

[TwoPockets]

Not to diminish the events of this week, but how often we forget real history (or it's revised by the politically correct).

Actually the worst mass shooting in US history was not in Orlando this past week.  It was in 1890 when the US Army came to disarm native Americans and collect their firearms at Wounded Knee, SD.  Estimates put 300 as the number killed (likely many more).  So the same federal government who perpetrated that act now has a leader and a potential future leader calling for more gun restrictions on the public and a prohibition on the public owning firearms (while they are surrounded by people with guns to protect "them").  Strange that the US revolutionary war's first skirmish was over the British attempt to disarm the colonist.  Seems to be a recurring theme about disarming the public.

It's not guns, it's the idiots holding the guns that are the problem.  Deal with the problem.  Be it lunatics or fanatics, they are the problem, not the gun that you may own to protect yourself from these same lunatics.

Oh, and it's 49 murdered, not 50.  The gunman should not count as "murdered" as he was the author of his own misfortune.

I think what they are trying to say is this is the worst mass murder by a single shooter. Wounded Knee was certainly a mass murder and one of the darkest days in our nation's history.

The crazies will always be able to get guns, if not they will find other ways. They say he had what appeared to be a suicide vest with him so he could have just blown several people up. If there had been a few, or even just one armed and trained person in that crowd dozens of people would have been saved. 

[DWard51]

The crazies will always be able to get guns, if not they will find other ways. They say he had what appeared to be a suicide vest with him so he could have just blown several people up. If there had been a few, or even just one armed and trained person in that crowd dozens of people would have been saved.

That's the part of the political push that makes no sense.  Instead of focusing on the problem (lunatics, criminals, or terrorists, all with ill intent), some are twisting yet another tragedy to push forward a "let's disarm the law abiding people" agenda.  The only people this will disarm, as the ones who are not the problem in the first place.  Criminals, lunatics and terrorist are never going to follow any law.  So the answer is make the pool of unarmed victims larger?

A firearm is an inanimate piece of metal.  Just as a machete, car, pressure cooker, or any other item perverted for the purpose of harm by the crazies.  I've never heard of any of these items leaping up and harming anyone on their on.  It takes a crazy behind the trigger to commit the act, yet somehow it's the inanimate object which is the problem?  WTF??  History has proven over and over that an unarmed populace is a collective group of victims just waiting on some other group's oppression.  That is about an un-American a plan as I've ever heard of, yet that is what I'm hearing on the news today.

"never waste a good crisis" logic at it's best (or worst).

[teesquare]

DWard-

I can tell you that  part of my time is consumed with reviewing legislation and pending legislation, and bills that will influence or change the medical industry.

What I have witnessed during the last 2 presidents administrations ( just so you know it is not a "party" problem - it *IS* and American problem....)
 is that quietly - congress has been reducing the funding to states for mental health care....

Perhaps because if it cannot be seen easily like a physical disability or illness such as a missing limb - and there is a stigma attached to issues surrounding mental health that generally make them less talked about...Our govt. has really contributed to the problem by not properly funding the "neck up - check up" portion of health care as it was funded 3 administrations back.

Let us not focus on blaming any particular political party - that is divisive and inaccurate. BOTH ARE AT FAULT. And let us not focus on lobby groups that are pro - or anti gun. They should not be necessary to practice common sense , constitutionally empowered governance.

We all know that is not the reality of when we live tho, don't we? So - I ask that we focus NOT not on the blaming - but the unified vigilance against the violence, and terrorism. Call your senators and representatives. e-mail the crap out of them...they *DO* form their vasillating opinions and actions on which way the political winds are blowing. YOU have the power to change that wind... an YES it requires a lot of getting angry with them and whining and complaining.
BE the sqeaky wheel. BE louder than the the money that lobbyism brings to their campaigns.

You can download free e-mail to fax software on your computer. Want attention? Start sending them faxes 3 times a day.....when they have to keep replacing ink and paper - you WILL get a response from their office .

[Pappymn]

DWard-

I can tell you that  part of my time is consumed with reviewing legislation and pending legislation, and bills that will influence or change the medical industry.

What I have witnessed during the last 2 presidents administrations ( just so you know it is not a "party" problem - it *IS* and American problem....)
 is that quietly - congress has been reducing the funding to states for mental health care....

Perhaps because if it cannot be seen easily like a physical disability or illness such as a missing limb - and there is a stigma attached to issues surrounding mental health that generally make them less talked about...Our govt. has really contributed to the problem by not properly funding the "neck up - check up" portion of health care as it was funded 3 administrations back.

Let us not focus on blaming any particular political party - that is divisive and inaccurate. BOTH ARE AT FAULT. And let us not focus on lobby groups that are pro - or anti gun. They should not be necessary to practice common sense , constitutionally empowered governance.

We all know that is not the reality of when we live tho, don't we? So - I ask that we focus NOT not on the blaming - but the unified vigilance against the violence, and terrorism. Call your senators and representatives. e-mail the crap out of them...they *DO* form their vasillating opinions and actions on which way the political winds are blowing. YOU have the power to change that wind... an YES it requires a lot of getting angry with them and whining and complaining.
BE the sqeaky wheel. BE louder than the the money that lobbyism brings to their campaigns.

You can download free e-mail to fax software on your computer. Want attention? Start sending them faxes 3 times a day.....when they have to keep replacing ink and paper - you WILL get a response from their office .

My representative blocked me from posting on her official Facebook page. And has never returned an email. Taxation without representation at its finest.

[teesquare]

There are other avenues to reach them. Try you local party leaders, and your state reps - PRESSURE and money are the only rule in political physics.

Don't make me put only lobbyist hat....I hated the system because of what we have allowed it to become - but use the above against the complacency that you encounter. Nothing scares a politician like a small group of people that are getting traction with the politicians support system ( underlings in the food chain...)

[Saber 4]

Let me begin by adding my appreciation to everyone else's for the respectful manner everyone has used in this thread.

I only have two things to point out about this situation and where we find ourselves now.

1. We didn't start this, President Jefferson first had to deal with this threat against the Barbary Pirates in our early formative years.

2. Just because we don't want to be at war with someone doesn't mean that they are not at war with us and bent on our destruction as a country and society.

Thank you and off my soap box now.

[DWard51]

DWard-

I can tell you that  part of my time is consumed with reviewing legislation and pending legislation, and bills that will influence or change the medical industry.

What I have witnessed during the last 2 presidents administrations ( just so you know it is not a "party" problem - it *IS* and American problem....)
 is that quietly - congress has been reducing the funding to states for mental health care....

Perhaps because if it cannot be seen easily like a physical disability or illness such as a missing limb - and there is a stigma attached to issues surrounding mental health that generally make them less talked about...Our govt. has really contributed to the problem by not properly funding the "neck up - check up" portion of health care as it was funded 3 administrations back.

Let us not focus on blaming any particular political party - that is divisive and inaccurate. BOTH ARE AT FAULT. And let us not focus on lobby groups that are pro - or anti gun. They should not be necessary to practice common sense , constitutionally empowered governance.

We all know that is not the reality of when we live tho, don't we? So - I ask that we focus NOT not on the blaming - but the unified vigilance against the violence, and terrorism. Call your senators and representatives. e-mail the crap out of them...they *DO* form their vasillating opinions and actions on which way the political winds are blowing. YOU have the power to change that wind... an YES it requires a lot of getting angry with them and whining and complaining.
BE the sqeaky wheel. BE louder than the the money that lobbyism brings to their campaigns.

You can download free e-mail to fax software on your computer. Want attention? Start sending them faxes 3 times a day.....when they have to keep replacing ink and paper - you WILL get a response from their office .

Tee, I concur 200% on the defunding of proper mental health screening and more importantly treatment being a huge part of the problem.  And some form of mental health issue seems to be at the core of every one of these incidents.  I would argue anyone who is radicalized in any extreme religion also falls in to this category.  And failure to fund an adequate solution lays at the feet of both parties.

[Saber 4]

DWard-

I can tell you that  part of my time is consumed with reviewing legislation and pending legislation, and bills that will influence or change the medical industry.

What I have witnessed during the last 2 presidents administrations ( just so you know it is not a "party" problem - it *IS* and American problem....)
 is that quietly - congress has been reducing the funding to states for mental health care....

Perhaps because if it cannot be seen easily like a physical disability or illness such as a missing limb - and there is a stigma attached to issues surrounding mental health that generally make them less talked about...Our govt. has really contributed to the problem by not properly funding the "neck up - check up" portion of health care as it was funded 3 administrations back.

Let us not focus on blaming any particular political party - that is divisive and inaccurate. BOTH ARE AT FAULT. And let us not focus on lobby groups that are pro - or anti gun. They should not be necessary to practice common sense , constitutionally empowered governance.

We all know that is not the reality of when we live tho, don't we? So - I ask that we focus NOT not on the blaming - but the unified vigilance against the violence, and terrorism. Call your senators and representatives. e-mail the crap out of them...they *DO* form their vasillating opinions and actions on which way the political winds are blowing. YOU have the power to change that wind... an YES it requires a lot of getting angry with them and whining and complaining.
BE the sqeaky wheel. BE louder than the the money that lobbyism brings to their campaigns.

You can download free e-mail to fax software on your computer. Want attention? Start sending them faxes 3 times a day.....when they have to keep replacing ink and paper - you WILL get a response from their office .

Tee, I concur 200% on the defunding of proper mental health screening and more importantly treatment being a huge part of the problem.  And some form of mental health issue seems to be at the core of every one of these incidents.  I would argue anyone who is radicalized in any extreme religion also falls in to this category.  And failure to fund an adequate solution lays at the feet of both parties.

I'm also involved in legislative matters and I can tell you that in my opinion and experiece funding is not the only or biggest issue with mental health today. What we have found is the movement to "least restrictive environment" has swung the pendulum so far that truly dangerous to themselves and others patients are "stabilized" and released out to society where they don't have to take their meds or attend counseling. This along with funding issues has led to most mental health treatment occurring in county and state jails and prisons in a revolving door system that places burdens on local taxpayers and Sheriff's staffs as well as improper and ineffective treatment for the individual. In Texas the Harris County jail is the largest inpatient mental health/drug abuse treatment facility.

[TwoPockets]

I want the link to the free email to fax software. PM me I  necessary.

[teesquare]

I'm also involved in legislative matters and I can tell you that in my opinion and experiece funding is not the only or biggest issue with mental health today. What we have found is the movement to "least restrictive environment" has swung the pendulum so far that truly dangerous to themselves and others patients are "stabilized" and released out to society where they don't have to take their meds or attend counseling. This along with funding issues has led to most mental health treatment occurring in county and state jails and prisons in a revolving door system that places burdens on local taxpayers and Sheriff's staffs as well as improper and ineffective treatment for the individual. In Texas the Harris County jail is the largest inpatient mental health/drug abuse treatment facility.
[/quote]

Agreed, but it is all connected to lower funding. Example: At local hospital- we know many of the ER supervisory personnel. With all of the mergers and acquisitions- we are seeing the deletion of emergent mental health care nurse - and the current push is to make the regular ER staff responsible for the mental patient ward or rooms attached to the emergency areas, and lay off the specifically train mental health care nurses. This stretches further the human resources which are already inundated with a high percentage of folks int he ER triage cue that bring their kids with the sniffles...to hospital EMERGENCY.  This same group almost never has cash or insurance....( please don't take what I am saying and turn it into an assault on a group of people. I have my opinions too - but trying to stick to the facts here and without a judgmental viewpoint in what I write. ) When I looked into this - via private conversation with a hospital administrator I was told that the funding cuts from D.C. have brought about everything we are seeing and experiencing in diminished patient care - beginning in the ER - and going forward, this is a trend.
Why? The physics of math... We are now in the period of history when as many as 10,000 Baby Boomers per day are retiring. This means that they are no longer contributing money to the funding sources for health care  ( S.S., Medicare, et al..) rather now many are asking back from the govt. what the govt. promised them would be there when they needed it. ( I HATE the word "entitlement"...it sounds like it is an un-earned privilege  when in point of FACT - the Baby Boomers has created more wealth, more savings and more residual income than any generations before them - and probably any in the future AND..contributed MORE money to the tax roles than any other group before. They LOANED the govt. that money on the word of our govt. that the money would be there when they need it...end tirade .
So - because Congress - BOTH parties - have stripped, stolen, mis-appropriated  and otherwise committed what would be larcenous acts should we as private corporations attempt such financial piracy...the pie of contributions ( picture: pie chart ) is shrinking in diameter and the number of pieces that it must be cut in to is growing. It is an impossible fiscal dilemma to solve. The only "solving is that as quietly as they can sneak cuts in - congress continues to slash at anything it can in healthcare to try to reduce the momentum of the payable drain...in a feeble attempt to re-match the dwindling contributions. Frankly - it resembles bankruptcy - without the creditors ( WE the people...) being able to approve the proceedings.

I truly fear that within my lifetime - I will see a "do - over" of the American system of govt. Not happy. At all.
We have come to a place where we must "accept" irresponsible behaviors as the norms of society - from those in the highest - to the lowest among our people. That cannot continue ad infinitum. It physically cannot.

[Big Dawg]

I truly fear that within my lifetime - I will see a "do - over" of the American system of govt. Not happy. At all.
We have come to a place where we must "accept" irresponsible behaviors as the norms of society - from those in the highest - to the lowest among our people. That cannot continue ad infinitum. It physically cannot. [/color]

Interestingly enough, Tee, my dad and I were having a very similar conversation over smoked pork chops (I'll post pics later) Sunday night.

I predict a degrading of society to the point where a second Civil War may erupt.  Conservative states vs Liberal states this time.  But I feel like it wall fall on similar cartographic lines.  (Although we may get to keep Big Sky country.)

I didn't think it would go all the way back to 1776, but you may be right.





BD

[Saber 4]

I don't mind referring to SS or Military retirement as an entitlement because they are earned and the earner is entitled to receive the rewards of their labor. The unearned "entitlements" are what I would rein in to ease taxpayer burdens. It is a shame that we have come to rely on taxpayer money distributed by Federal or State agencies to fund the operation of what should be a completely private relationship between patient, doctor, hospital and insurance companies. Just my humble opinion in response to the above and with that I would suggest we continue the discussion elsewhere and let this shift back to our compassion for the victims of the most recent terrorist attack.

[smokeasaurus]

I think we should keep the victims of this senseless massacre in our thoughts and prayers...but it is time to lock this post.............I know we all have strong opinions on why this happened and I respect that, but that is subject for another medium............I sure hope everybody understands