Would Like Crisp Chicken Skin

[CDN Smoker]

I did some chicken on the smoker a week or so ago. Taste and flavour was great but the skin was not.
I am posting ahead of my cook tomorrow for any advice for a crispy skin.

This is not mine but comes from another site.



Brine,
4 cups hot water
3/4 cup kosher salt
3/4 cup dark brown sugar, packed
1 tablespoon coarsely ground black pepper
6 bay leaves, crumbled
2 X 12 oz. bottles/cans cold lager beer
1 tray of ice cubes
2 cups cold water

Ok, I have two chickens in the brine.


Note; rather than adding the ice I placed the brine in the freezer before cutting up and adding the chicken. I did add more water to keep the brine consistent.

Rubs I will use;
2 teaspoons sweet paprika
1/2 teaspoon ground cumin
1/2 teaspoon kosher salt
1/2 teaspoon dark brown sugar, packed
1/4 teaspoon celery salt
1/4 teaspoon chili powder
1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
pinch of dried oregano

And another one called Jan's

Ok, will post more tomorrow

[Pappymn]

I did an overnight brine the other day of two spatchcocked birds. I think 24 hours was too much. Kind of salty. Smaller dark meat pieces especially. The breasts were better. In the future, with chicken, I am doing a shorter brine.

[Rummm]

I have good luck with drying the chicken parts in the fridge nekkid for a few hours and then a light dusting of corn starch.

[deestafford]

I've had success on crispying the skin by putting it on the grill for a little while after I smoked it.  Dee

[CDN Smoker]

I did an overnight brine the other day of two spatchcocked birds. I think 24 hours was too much. Kind of salty. Smaller dark meat pieces especially. The breasts were better. In the future, with chicken, I am doing a shorter brine.

I will remove from the brine before noon, rinse real well with fresh water

I have good luck with drying the chicken parts in the fridge nekkid for a few hours and then a light dusting of corn starch.

Give them a real good workout with paper towel, and again before applying the rub and cornstarch.

I've had success on crispying the skin by putting it on the grill for a little while after I smoked it.  Dee

I thinking of having the smoker at 350/400. Really open to suggestions on what to do here?

[Barry CB Martin]

The smoke process infuses flavor but during the limited time and lower temperature of the air (generally speaking) the skin just has too much moisture in it. Even more when the chicken is brined.

I often find I'm mystified by some result and when I take a moment to reflect on the process and look at it from the "fundamentals" it's cause I am missing a step.

"Dry Browns (and crisps) and Wet Steams"

Here's some thinking on this topic...and your feedback is greatly appreciated.   

http://welcometothecookout.com/dry-browns-wet-steams/

[Smokin Don]

Goods crisp skin on a pellet smoker to me is a hard thing to achieve. If you do chicken pieces whether on the grill or in a pan you need to keep the pieces separated. I had good luck with Smokes pellet fried chicken but had the pieces too crowded and some pieces didn't brown so well I should have used a larger pan. Lately at the most I only smoke for a half hour if any and then go to 325 to 350 deg. at grill level to do my chicken. It's hard to drive any smoke flavor through the skin anyway and I think long smoke times equal rubbery skin.

You can brine too long, I like to brine chicken but use a week brine, 1/3 cup kosher salt and 1/4 cup brown sugar to 1/2 gallon of water.

A brining chart for poultry I use.
Brining times

Whole Chicken (4-5 Pounds)   8 to 12 hours
Chicken Parts   1 1/2 hours
Chicken Breasts   1 hour
Whole Turkey   24 - 48 hours
Turkey Breast   5 - 10 hours
Cornish game hens   2 hours
Shrimp   30 minutes
Pork chops   12 - 24 hours
Pork Tenderloin (whole)   12 - 24 hours

Smokin Don

[sliding_billy]

The smoke process infuses flavor but during the limited time and lower temperature of the air (generally speaking) the skin just has too much moisture in it. Even more when the chicken is brined.

I often find I'm mystified by some result and when I take a moment to reflect on the process and look at it from the "fundamentals" it's cause I am missing a step.

"Dry Browns (and crisps) and Wet Steams"

Here's some thinking on this topic...and your feedback is greatly appreciated.   

http://welcometothecookout.com/dry-browns-wet-steams/

Great write-up CB!

[TentHunteR]

We just had a discussion about this in another thread.

I spent the better part of a year researching this & playing with methods and found a simple trick that works consistently.

Disclaimer: I am not a rocket scientist, nor do I pretend to be one on a public forum. I did not invent this, I merely researched & played with it to see what gave the most consistent results.

Here's the trick:  Rub a thin layer of mayo all over the chicken, apply your seasoning and stick it on the grill at a minimum 350°. But higher temps work even better! I typically go with 400°.

And NO, other oils do NOT have the same effect. I've tried; They work; but not to the same degree and I'll explain why I think that is.

And NO, cooking low and bumping the heat up at the end to try and crisp the skin will not give the same results either! You'll just end up with chewy, leathery skin.


So, how does this mayo trick work?

Well Barry eluded to the problem; too low of a heat/temperature.  At lower temps the fat just under the skin will heat up and melt off before it gets hot enough to fry and crisp the skin.  If you try to bump the heat now, the fat is gone so the skin just dries out instead of crisping.

High Heat alone will improve the situation, because now the fat under the skin is getting hot enough to fry & crisp the skin.

Add some oil to the outside of the skin and you have improved the situation because there is now oil on both sides of the skin, HOWEVER...  the layer of oil is already thin when applied, much of the that oil ends up running off, and as it gets hotter, it becomes thinner (less viscous).

Mayo, being mainly oil, is thicker and has egg yolks in it. Egg yolks contain lecithin. Where most oils are repelled by water in the chicken skin (especially if brined), the lecithin in the yolks are attracted to both oil & water, which is why it makes such a good emulsifier (Alton Brown explains this very well in his show about Mayonnaise).  This lets the mayo stick to the chicken skin in a thicker layer without running off.

So... now you have a chicken fat under the skin and a layer of thick oil (mayo) on the outside which sticks. Apply high heat and the oils now get hot enough to fry & crisp the skin from both sides!

And voila; crispy edible skin!


Try it yourself and see how it works for you.

Barry, please tell me this makes sense, because now my head hurts! 



Notes:

- Cooking spray would probably work,    but not on my chicken!  Yuck!

- Because of the higher temps you will need to pull your chicken off a little sooner so you don't overcook & dry it out.

[muebe]

The key to crispy skin is higher air temps and direct grilling(no pan, casserole dish,etc.). You want the skin to get hot enough to "air fry" and crisp up. So a temp of 375F to 400F is good.

You can pull back the skin and salt/season a little under it. Another little trick is to scrape the skin on the inside to thin it out. This helps the skin become crisper.

Make sure your cooker is fully pre-heated before starting the chicken cook. You want that skin to come up to a hot air temp quickly.

Also a good idea to let the bird air dry for a few hours in the fridge before cooking. A light salting of the skin will help draw out some of that moisture.

Marinades and sauces will inhibit this process. And excessive amounts of rub can also by holding the moisture to the skin.

And starting at low cooking temperatures to give more smoke will contribute to less crispy skin due to the drying out of the skin without it being hot enough to "air fry".

Finally one more thing you can do. If cooking chicken pieces you can pre fry them in a deep fryer for a couple minutes and then finish on your smoker. This treatment will get the skin prepped for a good finish on your smoker

[Hub]

Competition cooks generally use either margarine or mayonnaise (read that "oil") to keep chicken skin from turning to rubber in a smoker of any kind.  Low temeprature is the culprit.  Properly applied, the oil will keep the skin supple.

Fact of Life:  (as presented in some prior posts here)  "crisp" will require some fairly direct, high heat.  You can get crisp from an added final cooking step using a hot grill for a few minutes on each piece or you can get it from a final cooking "stage" involving higher heat in the cooking chamber following the smoke phase.  The latter will be less reliable, have more effect on the meat (may overcook) and will vary somewhat by piece type and its size.

Hub

[TentHunteR]

Oh Yeah... I forgot to mention getting the grill up to temp first (thanks muebe)!

I should've added in my disclaimer above the Mayo-Method-o-cooking chicken is ONLY ONE trick.  As you can see by Muebe's post, there are other tricks.  I've seen that pan fry before cooking done and it works (but the chicken isn't as smoky).

I get good skin as long as I keep the temp over 300° the higher the better

That seems to be a common factor with good skin.


I've heard/read the Baking powder trick works really well, but haven't given it a try yet.


I first saw that mayo trick used on the BBQ Pit Boys show (youtube), and he mentioned it had something to do with the eggs in the mayo. Needless to say that caught my attention.  Then Scallywag cooked a chicken with high heat and good results, and that piqued my curiosity.

[CDN Smoker]

Wow fella's many thanks for al the input I do plan to do a better reply but I am a little on the busy side at least till the weekend.

I am working the chicken but here is what I have for now.

Much more North of where I live is the,
Extreme Cold Weather Test Facility (ECWTF) - Thompson, Manitoba
Latitude and Longitude: 55°49′53.13″N 97°48′59.89″W
The facility is located at the nearby airport in Thompson, Manitoba, Canada. The Extreme Cold Weather Test Facility offers vehicle testing in extremely cold weather conditions, and with ice and snow, during the winter months from around November 1 to April 30.
[edit]Features
600 foot (180 m) diameter skid circle
Ride & handling course
1600 foot (490 m) straightaway
1500 foot (460 m) variable friction surfaces
Ice skid pads
500 foot (150 m) snow run up
900 foot (270 m) ice straightaway
200 foot (60 m) snow braking
18,000 square foot (1670 m²) indoor facility with vehicle hoists
729 feet (222 m) above sea level
Packed snow surfaces
Access to ice road on Moak Lake
Extreme Cold Weather Test Facility
[edit]


After the snow fall last night I have decided to be the "extreme testing facility for MAK


Back to the chicken
Rub 1


Rub 2


Stay tuned

[CDN Smoker]

Ok, lets finish this up.

Company came as I was putting this all together so I don have a lot of pics
On the smoker


This is not pretty at all


Notes;
-Chicken was in the brine for about 12hrs, did not have a salty taste
-When the chicken was removed from the brine he was dried well and allowed to air dry in the fridge
-Did use the cornstarch, skin was dry as dry
-I mixed the rubs with Mayo and applied under and over the skin
Question, Understanding "Dry Browns (and crisps) and Wet Steams", when applying the Mayo to the skin did I in effect waist all my time drying the skin? I am thinking so

What I will do different next time;
-Am not a fan of cooking in the dark so I will start earlier.
-Will do the brine again
-Cut up the chicken into parts to make is easier to handle
-Will do the Mayo again mixed with the rubs. Both were real good
-Need to get those mats ordered.

Thanks for Viewing,
CDN

[Pappymn]

Looks great partner. Really good thread of information