Let's Talk BBQ

General => General Discussion & Topics => Product Reviews => Topic started by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 04:30:04 PM

Title: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 04:30:04 PM
As you all know Simi Pellet Grills is now a proud dealer of Camp Chef. The first delivery of Camp Chefs pellet grill has arrived and Eric is sold out with more on order. I am fortunate to have one to do an in-depth product review. Camp Chef states that the grill was designed with the backyard griller in mind and they don't get more backyard than old Smoke. :D
 
This will be a locked thread. I will be adding pictures and details on certain stages of testing as I go along. Over at the Pellet Grill Outfitters forum sponsor section we will have a Question and Answer thread where I or Eric can answer all questions and inquiries. Here is the link for the Q & A thread  http://www.letstalkbbq.com/index.php?topic=4738.0

Now this is quite an honor and responsibility for me to do a test review on one of Simi Pellet Grills latest pellet grills so I need a helper........

I give you:      "Camp Chef" Smoochy!!
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps8ff40b4f.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps8ff40b4f.jpg.html)

On with the review  :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
Lets start off with the official Camp Chef description

Description
Take your outdoor cooking to the next level with the Camp Chef Pellet Grill and Smoker. Designed with the home griller in mind, built-in features simplify the process of smoking. The included digital temperature readout takes the guesswork out of the cooking process. The Pellet Grill and Smoker features range from innovative digital smoker controls to dual temperature sensors. Discover the real secret of award winning BBQ cooks, low and slow smoking.
Features

    Electronic auto-start ignition
    Dual LED temperature readout: internal cooking temps and internal food temps
    Easily choose your smoke setting or desired temperature
    Automatic pellet auger dispenses when needed and shuts down when done
    Stainless steel probe measures internal food temperature
    Built in sensor gauge reads cooking temperature
    Included warming rack provides additional space to cook your favorite foods
    Clean-out ash can makes clean up simple
    Large capacity pellet hopper means less filling, more smoking
    Included recipe booklet simplifies the learning curve

Product Specifications:

    Grilling Area Dimensions: 19.5" x 22"
    Smoking/Warming Rack Dimensions: 6" x 24"
    Total Rack Surface Area: 560 sq. in
    Hopper Capacity: 20 lbs. of pellets
    Cooking Height: 32.5"
    Overall weight: 127 lbs.


Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 04:35:06 PM
The grill was packaged about as nice as it gets. This grill will be safe and sound whether shipped around the block or shipped coast to coast.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps10d18812.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps10d18812.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps2ea52d23.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps2ea52d23.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/004_zpsc05ffb40.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/004_zpsc05ffb40.jpg.html)

Got everything set out for assembly. All that needs to be assembled is 4 legs the handle and the chimney and side shelve.
Everything lines up just perfectly and assembly is a breeze.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/005_zps682233d9.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/005_zps682233d9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 04:39:06 PM
Here are photos of the grill at different angles and fully assembled...........
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/006_zpsba33caf5.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/006_zpsba33caf5.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/007_zps87892cbe.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/007_zps87892cbe.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/008_zps2f5ce505.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/008_zps2f5ce505.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/009_zps3fc79abf.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/009_zps3fc79abf.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/010_zps763368cc.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/010_zps763368cc.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/011_zps9cc9e291.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/011_zps9cc9e291.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/012_zps6a7f5db6.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/012_zps6a7f5db6.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/013_zpsf445bc55.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/013_zpsf445bc55.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/014_zps697e7a71.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/014_zps697e7a71.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/015_zpsd6abc44a.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/015_zpsd6abc44a.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/016_zps1f61fdea.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/016_zps1f61fdea.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/017_zps402ef27e.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/017_zps402ef27e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 04:46:08 PM
The grill is now assembled and I now have to read the nice instruction manual. The manual also has some recipes to get you started....nice.

The initial impressions of the Camp Chef Pellet Grill after assembly:  It is clear to me that Camp Chef did their homework when designing this grill. I would say this grill fits into the Green Mountain range. The powder coated finish of the CCPG (Camp Chef Pellet Grill) is far superior to some of the other pellet grills I have seen. The fit and finish of this grill is outstanding. The door fits nice. The drip pan slips in far easier than any pellet grill that I know of (I used to dread taking out and putting in the drip pan in my GMG). The drip pan also has a nice slope to it for grease run off. The cooking grate is full length (not two sections), the heat diffuser and drip pan is heavy duty stainless steel. The fire pot is thick beefy stainless as well. The clean out rod pulls out and in very smoothly. Would you expect anything less from Camp Chef?

I thought this was going to be an entry level grill but the quality and fit and finish surprised me  :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 06:31:26 PM
A couple more features I forgot to show:

The port for the probe to check your meat
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zpsf0808cf3.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zpsf0808cf3.jpg.html)

The top door of the hopper has a border around it to make the hopper top another side shelve
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps6f5d09e6.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps6f5d09e6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2013, 09:36:14 PM
I read the manual from front to back and it is time to feed the auger. The controller has a feed button so all I had to do was switch the grill on,,,nothing will happen until you turn the dial. I had the drip pan and heat deflector out so I could see the pellets get to the opening of the auger. I switched the dial to feed and in 3 minutes I got this:

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps0f58a3d1.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps0f58a3d1.jpg.html)

Camp Chef recommends a break in burn of 350 degrees for 30 minutes. The pit reached 350 in 21 minutes and for the 30 minutes it ran between 359 and 344.......... The smoke was heavy early in the start up and then none as the pit climbed toward the 350 target temp.

First smoke:

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps65d7264a.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps65d7264a.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/004_zps53fd8ed5.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/004_zps53fd8ed5.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/005_zps3cee7f3a.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/005_zps3cee7f3a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 30, 2013, 09:20:44 AM
Cleaning this grill cant be easier. The Mfg recommends vacuuming out the ashes every 1 -2 months. The fire pot bottom just pulls out and you are ready for the next cook.

I did have a problem pulling the fire pot bottom out. I think it could be from the metal heating up for the first time. I had to take out the diffuser and use a channel lock on the rod to break it free....will let everyone know if this happens again.

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps332b39db.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps332b39db.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 05, 2013, 08:28:29 PM
We have just completed the first round of pellet consumption testing. This first round was done using the 225 smoke temperature setting.

4 tests were done using 4 different types of pellets. -3- of the pellets were blended pellets and -1- was 100% Oak. The names of the pellets will not be disclosed because we have a couple of pellet forum sponsors here and some of them might have been used or maybe some of them were not. We are not really testing pellet performance but the grill itself.

During testing there was 6 lbs in the hopper and the grill was never in direct sunlight. The lid to the smoker was never opened during testing.

The grill reached target temp of 225 in an average of 12.5 minutes.

The Camp Chef Pellet Grill is pretty frugal with consumption at the 225 setting. The average consumption rate between the -4- different pellets was .71 of a lb an hour.

There was periods of heavy intermittent smoke throughout the tests. It appears to us that Camp Chef has listened to consumers wishing their pellet grill had more smoke. You will not need a added smoke source with this grill at the 225 and the hi and or lo smoke settings.

Now if you are looking for tight temp readings you might not be happy. This grill appears to be designed with the swings to increase the amounts of smoke it produces. Min/Max throughout the 225 testing was 245/210.

The right side of the pit is cooler than the left side by about 15 degrees. This is probably because of the smokestack being mounted on the back wall of the grill. More internal grate temp testing will be done.

In summary, lots of smoke and very good pellet consumption........this grill is off to a good start.
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 07, 2013, 12:16:11 AM
Pellet consumption testing at 250 degrees.

Average rate of pellets used an hour is .86 of a lb and yes we still had intermittent periods of good smoke throughout the test. Camp Chef calls this pit a Pellet Grill and Smoker and they mean it.  :)

Again, I used the -4- different pellets consisting of -3- blended pellets and -1- pure oak.
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 07, 2013, 12:18:47 AM
I was getting the Camp Chef pellet grill and smoker wiped down and prepped for the next pellet consumption test and I discovered another feature that I had missed.

There is a channel that the hopper lid sits in and I noticed a little hole in the corner. I figure if the grill gets caught in the rain, this little hole would let water drain out of the channel and not overflow into the hopper. i tell ya, Camp Chef put some thought into this little gem of a pellet grill  :)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps686cf5b0.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps686cf5b0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 07, 2013, 12:24:36 AM
A lid mounted thermometer has been placed on the right side of the Camp Chef Pellet grill. A Maverick lead was placed on the cooking grate right next to the pits thermo on the left side.

Here are the observations I just sent Eric....hey, we are not hiding anything from ya on this evaluation:

The pit ran between 261 and 219 with the roller coaster swings and you guessed it...lots of smoke!!

But the temps inside the pit were a different story:

When the CC controller said 250 the maverick probe that was right next to the CC thermo said 237 and the thermo mounted in the lid on the far right side said 232

the swings inside the pit was the maverick  241/234  and the mounted thermo 240/225

The temp settings on the controller dial seem to be 20 degrees under what they should be.

It seems each temp setting on the dial has a range programmed in so we get smoke at all the settings because the pit smoked real good again.

The pit temps were much more stable. While the controller temps were going between 261 and 219 the maverick and the mounted thermo were holding pretty tight with only 5 degree swings. The right side of the pit is absolutely cooler than the left side by about 10 degrees. I think this is due to the fact that the smokestack is mounted on the back wall and the heat and smoke has to search for its exit out of the cooking chamber.

the actual readings in the pit are about 16 degrees different than what the controller says.

i still feel that Camp Chef is addressing the need for smoke and is not concerned about holding very stable temps.

When I start cooking I am going to set my settings 1 notch above my desired temp I want to cook at. If I want 225, I will set the temp for 250.......and so on.

I think the food is still going to come out great but some people are so caught up on rock solid temps they might be turned off by the temp readings.  I for one am not to worried. My current pellet grill has temp swings and I have not had a bad meal off of it.

Tomorrows first 300 degree test will have the maverick probe in the center of the cooking grate.
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 07, 2013, 12:39:54 AM
One other observation. The early pictures Camp Chef released of this grill looks smaller than the actual grill. i would say that it is about the size of a Green Mountain Grill Daniel Boone. The cooking grate will hold -2- full briskets and -4- pork butts. You could probably squeeze -4- spare ribs laying down flat vertically, because the grate is 19.5 " deep. A GMG Daniel Boone second shelf fits up against the Camp Chef second shelve and you could probably get -3- more racks of ribs up top. This grill will cook for a crowd and not clutter up your patio.
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 07, 2013, 08:32:19 PM
Today was the first of the 300 degree pellet consumption tests and the Camp Chef Grill and Smoker surprised me today. I had very tight temps throughout the test and still had periods of smoke.....nice

Here is the report I sent to Eric:


300 degree test today with 5 lbs in the hopper.

test ran for 4.5 hours with a burn rate of 1.1 lbs an hour


The grill ran completely different at the 300 setting. I had very tight temperatures throughout the test.

i placed the Maverick probe in the dead center of the cooking grate.

Here are some examples of the temps throughout the test


CC Controller          Maverick          Thermo in the right side of the lid

     309                        289                                  275

     307                        291                                  280

     295                        289                                 280

     308                       295                                290

Min/Max

   312/295                297/285                           290/275


and we still got smoke!!  Nothing like the 225 tests but there are still periods of smoke. At 300 degrees to get periods of smoke is huge.

This grill is full of surprises, i expected no smoke and temp swings and I got smoke and tight temps throughout the entire grill. Pretty good consumption at 300 as well. I figure 300 is the line where you can throw pellet consumption out the window.......

The 300 degree tests will continue next weekend.
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 13, 2013, 04:22:55 PM
The 300 degree pellet consumption tests are finished. All -4- pellets pretty much had the same results with an average pellet consumption rate of 1.1 lbs an hour at 300 degrees. There were still periods of noticeable smoke at this higher heat setting.

I have done a total of -9- pellet consumption tests over the last two weeks and the pellet consumption seems to be pretty good. I can only compare it to my Yoder and my brothers Rec Tec. The Camp Chef uses pellets about the same as the Rec Tec and blows the Yoder away by burning 50% less an hour on average.....

225 degrees the grill consumes about .73 of a lb an hour

250 degrees the grill consumes about .81 of a lb an hour

300 degrees the grill consumes about 1.1 of a lb an hour

Good amounts of smoke at all of these heat settings.

The grill runs very nice. Comes to temp rather quickly and lots of nice smoke. The fan is not overly noisy and you can hear the auger motor when it comes on and I have always found that nice so I know everything is working.

So far, so good...............
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 13, 2013, 08:42:14 PM
Biscuit test.  Pillsbury Grands at 350 for 20 minutes.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps1c95f9ce.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps1c95f9ce.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps0ede4e7e.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps0ede4e7e.jpg.html)

Very even across the cooking grate and the bottoms were not burnt........this grill is impressive so far.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/004_zps85297f13.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/004_zps85297f13.jpg.html)

No periods of visible smoke was seen at the 350 setting. It appears that after the 300 mark the visible smoke is gone. From 160-300 smoke is heavier intermittently. I believe the controller has been programmed this way to add heavier smoke at smoking temperatures. I have seen lots of new pellet grill owners mentioning that they are disappointed with lack of smoke, but Camp Chef has addressed these complaints. No need for a smoke supplement gizmo in this pellet grill...at least up to 300 degree settings. :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 13, 2013, 08:47:10 PM
I would like to mention that I only mentioned Rec Tec and Yoder as comparisons for pellet consumption. I  have cooked on these pits before and have a load of respect for them. I don't want to make this a Camp Chef vs  __________ battle. I am going to keep this evaluation strictly on how the Camp Chef performs, I will not mention other Mfg's again as I am evaluating this Pellet Grill and Smoker.

Starting next week, I will be cooking in the Camp Chef Pellet Grill and Smoker....finally  ;)  I have decided that the first cook will be...........get ready Sparky........Ribs!!  :)

Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 17, 2013, 09:16:34 PM
Camp Chef has their own line of pellets. So, we will be using them for the cooking portion of the product review.
Here are the flavors:
Orchard Apple
Classic Alder
Smokehouse Hickory
Southwest Mesquite
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps687dd34d.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps687dd34d.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 20, 2013, 07:51:36 PM
Well, we finally got around to putting some food in the Camp Chef........so let the cooking begin  :)

Now I know for good pit karma, your first cook should be bacon, but man does not live by bacon alone ...(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/funny%20icons/yikes.gif) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/funny%20icons/yikes.gif.html)   yeah, I said it....(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/funny%20icons/yikes.gif) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/funny%20icons/yikes.gif.html)

I did include bacon on some cheese and jalapeno stuffed boneless,skinless chicken breasts. I used Camp Chef Apple pellets and ran the grill at 325.

I can not honestly say the pellets smelled like apple wood. The smoke did smell good though and consumption was real good. I was wondering if consumption would go down with meat in the grill, but that was not the case. I put 5 lbs in the hopper and including warm up and 1.75 hours at 325, the grill used 2.5 lbs of pellets.

The grill ran very nice and I purposely placed the chicken in different spots on the cooking grate and they all cooked evenly no matter where they were placed.

I used the temperature lead that you plug into the controller and when the thighs reached 170 internal on the controller, I used my thermo and I got 170.........nice.

The quality of this meal was no different then any other pellet grills I have used. The meat was excellent. Moist and tender and a mellow smoke profile.....we are off to a good start.....
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps9637c3e7.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps9637c3e7.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsef308872.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsef308872.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 21, 2013, 12:58:35 PM
Eric and I devised a way to add a full second cooking grate to the Camp Chef Pellet Grill and Smoker. However, when I added the thermo to the lid, I had to slip mine over to the left to make room for the probe. This 2nd grate is fully removeable and kicks up the capacity to 700 sq inches......the same as a Rec Tec or a Traeger Texas. I can now fit 5-6 spare ribs laying flat and -3- full packer briskets.........and -4- split chickens and probably -6- pork butts........room for a crowd......If and when you order a Camp Chef grill, just ask Eric for his "exclusive" second cooking grate..... ;)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/second2_zps563b777f.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/second2_zps563b777f.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/second1_zpsa24898f3.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/second1_zpsa24898f3.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 21, 2013, 08:57:08 PM
Today was rib day on the Camp Chef Pellet Grill and Smoker. I have always felt if a pit can help contribute to great ribs, ya got yourself a keeper. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a keeper here. I made my own spritz and finishing glaze. I had the ribs in brown sugar and pepper and onion for a night and two days with a heavy layer of KC rub. I went all out on these ribs and they were hands down without a doubt the best ribs I have done. They were so good I aint even gonna clean my beard so I can have a snack later  ;D ;D

I used Camp Chef's Smokehouse Hickory pellets and these did smell like hickory. I started off with 6 lbs of pellets in the hopper and did the ribs for 6 hours at 225. Lots of smoke like in the pellet consumption tests and rest assured that the intermittent periods of heavy smoke do not oversmoke the meat....nothing to worry about.

I did run out of pellets at the 4.5 hour mark. Those hickory pellets burn way to quick. I used about 8 lbs to get through the 6 hour cook with took about 6.75 hours because I had to shut the grill off and reprime the auger and start the grill all over again. User error though, not the pits fault. 

I did not rotate the ribs at all and put them back in the grill where they originally were after the restart. After two cooks, it is pretty apparent that this grill doesn't have any glaring hot spots and cooks evenly across the cooking surface.

Take a gander at these beauties:
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps078ae866.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps078ae866.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsc25b2aa0.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsc25b2aa0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 28, 2013, 09:46:38 AM
Split a whole Angus Chuck Roll with my boss. This big hunk of bovine is just around 15 lbs. Since Tee is waltzing across Texas, I got out Texas Brothers BBQ rub for the seasoning
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps1622b053.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps1622b053.jpg.html)

Well, it is 4 a.m. and Sagebrush Smoochy is fast asleep

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps640c2009-1.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps640c2009-1.jpg.html)

Wake up Smooch, we got some product testing to do......that's better....Tee aint the only one that looks good in a cowboy hat!
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps0d0c9f10-1.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps0d0c9f10-1.jpg.html)

Got oak pellets in the hopper and the grill set for 275....here we go
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps482b9bd8.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps482b9bd8.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 28, 2013, 07:47:39 PM
After -7- hours when the chuck roll hit 170 internal, I foiled it with some lager and kosher salt added. Into the oven at 300 till internal reached 195. Then a nice -2- hour rest and I got this:
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps8f36d72d.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps8f36d72d.jpg.html)

Put on some gloves and the evil Chuckie Roll pulled like a pork butt. I may never do a briskie again....this has way more flavor
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps952802aa.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps952802aa.jpg.html)

I had Camp Chef mesquite pellets in the hopper when I started the grill up. I did not care for the smell of them when the grill was heating up and I cleaned out the hopper real quick and added 100% Oak pellets.

The Camp Chef Pellet Grill and Smoker performed just like I thought it would....perfectly.......
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on August 04, 2013, 03:36:59 PM
Grabbed some cornish game hens and got em nekked (removed the skin) Coated em with clover honey and Grub Rub. See everyone by the Camp Chef Pellet Grill a little later...........



Got -8- Game hens on the cooking grate with the grill set for 250. Using Camp Chef Classic Alder pellets. These pellets smell real good,
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps5494734b.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps5494734b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on August 04, 2013, 08:33:40 PM
2.5 hours later the game hens were at 165 internal. I rolled the dice a bit taking off the skin but the breast meat was not dried out.
The classic alder pellets are really nice...gonna have to get some more of these...........th grill ran at 250 the entire time and I was a bit worried about the smoke being heavy since the skin was off,but those alder pellets gave the hens a kiss of smoke and everybody was pleased. I really look forward to using this grill...I am going to have to stretch this product review out a bit longer.... ;)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsb1252dfc.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsb1252dfc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on August 10, 2013, 08:35:50 PM
Gonna toss a pork butt in the Camp Chef Pellet Grill a little later this evening for its first overnight cook. But gosh darnit, I gotta sweet tooth.

Time for some Pillsbury chocolate cookies.......15 minutes at 350 and guess what...they all cooked evenly  :)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps2a134eff.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zps2a134eff.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps98a57898.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps98a57898.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on August 11, 2013, 08:26:52 PM
I have had some reservations about doing an overnight cook and I was correct. I put a pork butt in around 8:30 last night and set the grill for lo-smoke (160). Now, most folk would start the cook maybe round 11 p.m. and go at 225...but old Smoke goes to bed early and gets up early.... ;)  At the lo-smoke setting, there was a bunch of smoke all night long ( got the stinky eye today from a couple of neighbors) so I won't be doing anymore overnight cooks with this grill. The butt came out real nice but the bark was a tad bitter from all the smoke during the night portion of the cook. I just set that off to the side and we had some good eats. Very moist and tender...there isn't much this grill can't cook... :)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps6ec041df.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps6ec041df.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps697d4a03.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zps697d4a03.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps3fc37464.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zps3fc37464.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zpsa5c85c41.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zpsa5c85c41.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on August 17, 2013, 08:25:25 PM
It is time to do some grilling in the Camp Chef Pellet Grill. The hopper was loaded with oak pellets and the grill was set to high.
It took about 35 minutes for the grill to reach its maximum temp of 471 degrees.
I wanted to use some Grill Grates but I promised this review will be done with no gizmos or gadgets so the Grill Grates were not used. This grill needs Grill Grates when high heat grilling. I felt during the cook that the grill had to really work hard to hang around 470. I did -10- frozen patties and the grill once again cooked very evenly across the cooking grates, there was no chance that any searing was going to happen. The burgers were good though, just not grilled, more like baked hot burgers. Did get some slight grill marks though, close, but no cigar. I think with Grill Grates, grilling will be no problem, but grilling is clearly not this grills strong points.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zpsab480d23.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/001_zpsab480d23.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsf00d5367.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/002_zpsf00d5367.jpg.html)

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zpsc8a33fbf.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/Camp%20Chef%20Pellet%20Grill/003_zpsc8a33fbf.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on August 18, 2013, 10:44:38 AM
Well, it took almost -2- months but it is time for this review to come to a close. We have grilled. We have smoked. We have roasted. We did a overnight cook. We checked for pellet consumption. We checked for cooking grate temps. We used different types of pellets. We did it all folks.

This is a very nice pellet grill. I am going to use some brand names to illustrate where I feel this grill fits into the scheme of things.

This grill is no Mak or Memphis or Yoder. This grill is not entry level by any means. I still feel the best pellet grill for under 1,000 bucks is the Rec Tec. The next best grill is this one. At Eric's smoking lo price for forum members, this is a no brainer at 1/2 the price. I feel the Camp Chef Pellet Grill is a notch above Green Mountain Grills. It has worked flawlessly for me throughout the review. The controls are super easy to use. Lots of smoke at lo settings. The sweet spot for this grill is between 250 and 350. It just works so nice in this range. The lower settings produce a gang of smoke and can be used in the beginning to get your smoke profile going and then bump up the temps. This grill doesn't grill too well, get some grill grates and you should be OK. The built in temp probe is very accurate. The grill has amazingly tight temps across the entire cooking surface. The grill looks small but holds plenty of food for a family of six.The fire-pot clean out is worth the price of admission all by itself. Super easy clean-up. Nice fit and finish and easy assembly. This is a very well thought out grill. The pellet consumption is very lo (almost Memphis-like....but nothing beats a Memphis).

 In closing, if I was going to buy another pellet grill, I would choose this one. I have had a blast cooking on it and I am going to miss it. If you are in the market for a pellet grill, you would do yourself a great disservice by not giving this grill the hairy eye-ball.
If you have any questions,please send me a pm and if you would like to order send the grillgeek a pm and he will get ya taken care of.

I sure would like to thank Eric for having enough trust in me to test his latest offering and I thank everyone for checking out this product review.

I hope I did a good job...........
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on February 01, 2014, 08:19:51 PM
Just want you all to know that the Camp Chef Pellet Grill is now offered in a deluxe version with a stainless steel lid. It has gotten very good reviews on another forum that is strictly pellet driven.

But hey, we all knew this for a while now  ;)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on January 05, 2016, 11:48:23 AM
I never thought I was going to add to this review. Camp Chef has clearly listened and has made some changes to their pellet grill offerings.
This is the PG-24..almost identical to their initial offerings but with some real nice upgrades.
The biggest complaint has been the thin metal used for the lid. That has been changed. This lid is now beefy and it sits nicely against the smoker body.
More holes have been added along the hopper lid channel to help drain water if you get caught cooking in the rain.
A little lock assy has been added to the pellet clean out knob. Nice safety feature.......and a deterrent for a hooligan  :D
A hopper clean out has been added. It also has a little lock assy as well.......you hear that hooligans?  ;D
I opted for the SS package which gives you a big shiny (and much thicker) lid. A ss hopper lid and the chimney cap.
All these improvements and still under 550.00 with free shipping. Will post some future cooks and we will see if this cooks like the original model.

I found a fireplace store down the hill that has some Green Mountain Grills and they carry different pellets. Got a bag of GMG Gold to get started. Amazon prime is a great way to go for Cooking Pellets 8)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/0101160839_zpsgg7alkmz.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/0101160839_zpsgg7alkmz.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on January 05, 2016, 11:52:24 AM
I have unlocked this thread. Comments and questions are very welcome  :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Hub on January 05, 2016, 12:04:36 PM
One of the best values in pellet cookers.  A very capable machine for the money  ;D

Hub
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: tomcrete1 on January 05, 2016, 02:59:33 PM
One of the Best Reviews I have ever read!  Thank-you!  :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: drholly on January 05, 2016, 03:17:41 PM
The Smoke writes some of the best reviews you can use!
Title: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Pappymn on January 05, 2016, 05:13:47 PM

The Smoke writes some of the best reviews you can use!

That's why he is The Smoke
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: hikerman on January 05, 2016, 09:41:07 PM
Congrats on your new pellet grill Smoke! Another tool in the arsenal!  :D
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: muebe on January 06, 2016, 08:59:02 AM
Congrats. You got the thing now and are still alive.

She has not killed you yet? :P
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: teesquare on January 06, 2016, 10:13:39 AM
Congrats Smoke! You did not even have to go to the hospital!!!! :D

Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on January 06, 2016, 11:00:51 AM
Well, we just got the keys yesterday for our new cabin (escrow closes Monday), so I struck while the fire was hot  ;)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: TMB on January 06, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
Well, we just got the keys yesterday for our new cabin (escrow closes Monday), so I struck while the fire was hot  ;)
Smart man  ;)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on January 06, 2016, 04:34:58 PM
Well, we just got the keys yesterday for our new cabin (escrow closes Monday), so I struck while the fire was hot  ;)
Smart man  ;)

Every once in a great while...but not consistently  ;D
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Cinredman on January 06, 2016, 04:54:24 PM
I am very happy with the PG24LTD
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Smokin Don on January 06, 2016, 05:10:32 PM
That was a great review Smoke!!! looks like a nice pellet smoker!!! I have the Camp Chef single gas burner and it is well made. Don
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Big Dawg on January 06, 2016, 06:22:20 PM
Well, we just got the keys yesterday for our new cabin (escrow closes Monday), so I struck while the fire was hot  ;)
Smart man  ;)

Every once in a great while...but not consistently  ;D

Smart is knowing when to strike ! ! !

Great review !





BD
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill / Help!,,
Post by: tomcrete1 on February 03, 2016, 08:46:36 PM
Ok,,, love the review, I'm one the fence not sure which way to go.  I know I want to purchase a pellet grill, I have read your review several times, googled and tubed it, watched everything I could and I thought that the Camp Chef was the way to go.  I went to Gander Mountain today to look and touch it,,, I'm not sure which model it was it had the smoke stack on the back and the clean out tool but the lid was so thin that I could flex it right and left with one hand, was not impressed.  Maybe this was the old one on the floor, if it was I don't want it, I can send pics although they look exactly like the ones that are posted.  Obviously I have studied all,  the MAK two star would be the first choice, Rec Tech would be second and I thought Camp Chef would be the perfect mid range learn to pellet grill on, now I'm not so sure... Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you  :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on February 04, 2016, 11:22:29 AM
Tom,  go to outdoorcooking.com and get this model   http://www.outdoorcooking.com/products/grills/wood-pellet-grills/camp-chef-pellet-grill-smoker-deluxe.html

this is the one I have...and the lid is more than beefy enough in the ss version.  You just can't beat the features for the price. Ash clean out and pellet hopper clean out. A miser when it comes to pellet usage. At this price point the Camp Chef is easily the most dependable of all the offerings.

Heck, use it for a couple of years and if the pellet bug bites you.......go get a Mak........of course the grub will taste the same off of either.

I have performance tested Traeger, GMG (Bowie and Boone) Yoder YS-480, Rec Tec and Camp Chefs initial offering. All the food is so good off of them.

Get the Camp Chef. You will save some coin and have an awesome cooker........we would love to see your videos using it  :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: tomcrete1 on February 04, 2016, 01:26:57 PM
Tom,  go to outdoorcooking.com and get this model   http://www.outdoorcooking.com/products/grills/wood-pellet-grills/camp-chef-pellet-grill-smoker-deluxe.html

this is the one I have...and the lid is more than beefy enough in the ss version.  You just can't beat the features for the price. Ash clean out and pellet hopper clean out. A miser when it comes to pellet usage. At this price point the Camp Chef is easily the most dependable of all the offerings.

Heck, use it for a couple of years and if the pellet bug bites you.......go get a Mak........of course the grub will taste the same off of either.

I have performance tested Traeger, GMG (Bowie and Boone) Yoder YS-480, Rec Tec and Camp Chefs initial offering. All the food is so good off of them.

Get the Camp Chef. You will save some coin and have an awesome cooker........we would love to see your videos using it  :)

Thanks for the advice!  :)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Cinredman on April 19, 2016, 09:27:57 PM
Tonight, I made another attempt to download the PDF version of the manual for my PG24LTD; link is still causing a 403 error.  However, I stumbled across something new Smoker sear box http://www.campchef.com/smokepro-bbq-sear-box.html and my "buy now" finger is itching because my wife and I will be empty nesters this fall.

A bit pricy at $250, but then again... :P
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on April 19, 2016, 10:17:48 PM
Tonight, I made another attempt to download the PDF version of the manual for my PG24LTD; link is still causing a 403 error.  However, I stumbled across something new Smoker sear box http://www.campchef.com/smokepro-bbq-sear-box.html and my "buy now" finger is itching because my wife and I will be empty nesters this fall.

A bit pricy at $250, but then again... :P

If it is just you and the misses and if you are cramped for space, that sear box is a nice addition  8)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Aristocob on June 29, 2016, 10:43:45 PM
Thank you so much for this thorough review and write-up! I'm anxiously awaiting delivery of this smoker and your review lead me to this forum. Can't wait to replicate your tests.  Scott
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on June 29, 2016, 11:28:50 PM
Thank you so much for this thorough review and write-up! I'm anxiously awaiting delivery of this smoker and your review lead me to this forum. Can't wait to replicate your tests.  Scott

I am both honored and humbled. I do my reviews straight down the middle. I try to really give everyone the heads up and be fair and honest. The Camp Chef pellet grill is a solid performer with many new features at a price that wont keep you up at night wondering "What did I just do?!!  ;)
Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: Aristocob on July 05, 2016, 04:24:01 PM
So it was a fun weekend at the Markwood house.  I shot and posted a video on Youtube of the unboxing, assembly and testing of my new Camp Chef SmokePro DLX but I'm not yet approved to share it here. What I can tell you is that it was a lot of fun and this "grill" is one slick back yard appliance.

(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/aristocob/IMG_5809.jpg)

What amazed me most was how well it hovered near the temperature settings.  I replicated smokeasaurus' test with the Pillsbury Grands, though we opted for the "Flaky Layers" version.  We also cooked bacon, wings and leg quarters that were spectacular!  My bride commented on the bacon asking me how I was able to keep them so flat and all I could say was that's how they came out.  Keen-eyed observers will also note that the drip pan is already showing signs of rust. That came from a 30 minute downpour that came after shutdown but before the cover went on.  No doubt I'll be adding foil to this part in the future. 

(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/aristocob/IMG_5812.jpg)

I was a little bummed by some unwelcome body mods that were provided by FedEx,  but what do you expect when the box is so poorly labeled which end is up. (sarcasm)

(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/aristocob/IMG_5764.jpg)

I look forward to putting some serious meat through her, but from what I've seen so far she is one amazing cook!

(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/aristocob/M2U01759-001.jpg)

Title: Re: Camp Chef Pellet Grill
Post by: smokeasaurus on July 05, 2016, 04:58:34 PM
Glad you like your new Camp Chef. You are in for some fun. 8)