Let's Talk BBQ
Outdoor Cooking Equipment => Grills & Smokers => Stick Burners => Topic started by: smokeasaurus on September 15, 2013, 07:13:11 PM
-
It all started out so good. Went -6- hours for the cook. Pit ran between 225 and 250. I heated up the mini-splits and kept the firebox lid open until the smoke let up and then closed the lid.
Enjoy the pics and then I will ask for help.
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/001_zps229db383.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/001_zps229db383.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/005_zpsa868e5cd.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/005_zpsa868e5cd.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/003_zps8e7354ec.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/003_zps8e7354ec.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/004_zpsd0d383f5.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/004_zpsd0d383f5.jpg.html)
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/006_zps5ecb3a55.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/006_zps5ecb3a55.jpg.html)
Everything looks good right? Wrong!! The ribs seemed dark to me everytime I went to spritz em with apple sauce. I figured that was from the wooster sauce and rub and the post oak I was using.
When I took them out, the undersides were burnt. Some of the tops of the ribs were crispy as well.
What gives??
Temps were never over 250. Ribs were on the far left side. I do remember that when the pit came up to temp and I put the ribs on the cooking grates they sizzled.
So here is what I think: for some reason the heat is too intense at grate level and I will get a heavy duty water pan to set in the bottom of the barrel to help with the heat burning the undersides of my food.
Help LTBBQ...help...whatcha think??
-
Sounds like you are on the right track Smoke... If you hav a Maverick 732 or other 2 channel remote digital thermometer, why not place "oven" probe at approx 1 or less above the grate - and try several locations to see what the grate level heat truly is, and what your variations/hot-spots look like?
-
It was the entire grate Tee. All three ribs on the rack were burned on the underside. I just don't get it. I was never over 250 degrees and was mostly at 225 and around 200 when I was getting the splits to burn for refills..........
-
its not the chef. must have gotten some crappy ribs. ok, problem solved. you just need to get the pit more dirty. all my smokers work better after I get them yucky.
-
I feel your pain brother. Chin up partner. We live to cook another day
-
I have never had this problem in an offset. Even when I had the Quality Grill with the coals in the same chamber as the meat I never had the meat burn. The ribs looked like they were cooked directly over the coals.......
-
Smoke you need to check that thermometer. It has to be wrong.
They are not gonna burn like that at the temps you were cooking.
-
Smoke you need to check that thermometer. It has to be wrong.
They are not gonna burn like that at the temps you were cooking.
Exactly what I was thinking when I posted earlier...sorry I did not type that as well... That is why I would definitely do a thermometer at grate level check, even standard oven thermometers would give you another reference.
-
Smoke you are doing OK, just serve them burnt side down! That's the way my wife did it before she learned not to burn the meat! Sorry just could not resist that!!! Don
-
Smoke you need to check that thermometer. It has to be wrong.
They are not gonna burn like that at the temps you were cooking.
Exactly what I was thinking when I posted earlier...sorry I did not type that as well... That is why I would definitely do a thermometer at grate level check, even standard oven thermometers would give you another reference.
I ordered a Tel-Tru. I ordered it before I cooked today cause the Old Country thermo is hard to read. I will get that thermo put in when I get it and do a test run with the same sized fire........
-
I am just speculating, but your getting a Tru Tel thermometer is a positive step. See, if you can get some input from Jaxon, since his unit is the basically the same. From your pictures, it does not seem that the firebox has too big of a fire. The other thing that I would suggest is look at creating a baffle effect from the opening of the fire box across 85 per cent of the pit itself. You can do this by purchasing metal plates from 3/16 to 1/4 inch in thickness about 6 to 8 inches wide and ~15 or so inches in length and begin laying them from the baffle of the firebox so that they are over the opening. Try four plates. Leave a one to two inch gap between the plates across the bottom of the pit and below the grate. This will distribute the heat by diffusing the heat and distributing the heat evenly across the bottom of the pit to the chimney. If grill grates would work try that. This is what I am trying to say.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/heatplates2.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/heatplates2.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/heatplates.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/heatplates.jpg.html)
Try the new thermometer first and get some ribs that you can test on the unit again. If that does not work, then try a heat baffle.
Ed
PS: you might want to obtain a couple of grill surface thermometers or that laser device that reads temperatures off of the heat surface. I got two inexpernsive grill surface thermometers by Kingsford so that I could see the heat differential across the grill surface with the heat management plate provided by Yoder. There is a difference across the grill where the side towards the firebox is the hottest and the side nearest the chimney is the coolest. If I remember there was about a 50 degree swing. Something to think about.
-
I'll pile on here... Built in thermometer is the problem. Need something at grate level (both sides) for sure.
-
One more thing to think about while you're troubleshooting: If your rub contained high concentrations of either white or dark sugar it won't take super-high temps to burn it. Paprika will also blacken excessively, even at lower temps.
Hub
-
I checked the bottom of the smoking chamber this morning and all the grease that had fallen throughout the cook was burnt to a crisp. I have a bunch of scraping to do this evening............
-
Smoke was that cooker in the shade the whole time or perhaps did it get hit with direct sunlight when you were not looking?
The sunlight could have increased the the pit temps to where it got hot enough to start a small grease fire in the bottom.
I am still leaning toward a faultly thermometer however.
-
Don't want to be critical , from experience I've learned only cook one rack ribs for first cook!
Ignor the thermometer till calibrated.
The cooker got too hot , next cook decrease the airflow in.
Easy problem , the much worse is not being able to get a cooker hot enough....that usually requires surgery.
-
I am going to try a water pan under the meat setting on the bottom of the barrel this weekend. I do not want to deal with heavy metal plates every time I gotta clean the pit. I had the butterfly vent barely cracked and the pit was at 225-250 then entire cook with periods of 200 degrees while the wood got started when refueling. The pit was under the covered patio. I had it all set up perfectly. For some reason the bottom of the barrel is getting all the heat from the baffle to the smokestack side.
Oh, and -1- rack of ribs it will be this time. ;)
-
Dang...I'm last one in again.
After lookin' at the pics and hearing your tale of woe, I am thinking its your thermometer placement. The one I have in the lid, read 15* to 25* different from the Maverick I use at grate level. I've never trusted the therm in the lid.
I got a small block of wood and drilled a small hole thru it - just big enuff for the oven probe on the mav. I keep that probe close to the meat all the way thru the cook so I know what the grate temps are.
Early on, I got another Old Country thermometer and put it in the lid next to the handle so it would be at grate level. It isn't long enough to reach well into the smoker, so it reads only 200* from start to finish, regardless of what the MAV. is reading.
Bottom line is...I think your ACTUAL temps at grate level are much higher than you think.
-
How do you run your probe out of the pit? The lid is so heavy I think it would damage the lead......................
-
I close the lid on top of the lead. Have been doing this since the get go. I don't slam it, but I lower the lid gently and the lid sits between the probe and the pit. Just a note, my lid is lined with a 1/2 inch wide strip of self sticking nomex insulation on the flange part of the lid. So when I lower the lid to the frame of the pit, the nomex gasket provides elementary protection for the lead.
Perhaps, someday, when I am feeling better, I may put in a port on the Chimney side of the pit just as I had installed on the YS 480.
Ed
-
Smoke if the probe wire is long enough you can run it down the exhaust stack.
Or through the hole that is left when you remove the defective temp gauge in the hood ;)
-
It could simply be a bad thermometer, but I was thinking along the same lines as both Jaxon & Veryolddog.
Like Jaxon, I learned to not trust the lid thermometer because there was such a difference between it and the grate temp.
Veryolddog's baffle idea makes a lot of sense to me. I had similar issues with the bottom of meat getting overcooked in my offset, especially the side nearest the firebox, until I figured out that the hanging charcoal shelf that came with my offset (which ran the length of the pit) could act as a baffle when hung in it's highest position. When in this position, it sat just a few inches under the grate and left a gap along the front & back lengths of the pit for smoke to come up. All I did was use an inexpensive cookie sheet to direct the heat from the firebox down under the shelf/baffle. And, WOW what a difference it made.
You can see it in this pic:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-v80HxQwcTyg/TNxzhRHQRGI/AAAAAAAAAGg/Zl5DIePsEZg/s500/MR02.JPG)
Unless the entire pit was just too hot, it eliminated the burning underneath and went a long way to evening out the temp across the pit.
I always thought if I ever get another offset, I'd have a pit-length baffle made that's something like this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aRxZfzZa8Rs/Ujd-gyokk2I/AAAAAAAAFTs/4cGN7LENH8c/s800/BAFFPLATE.JPG)
Hope this helps. That looks like a nice heavy pit. :)
-
Love the baffle idea. I am going to mount a Tel-Tru 1.5 inches above cooking grate level. Then I will start another fire and control my fire based on that thermometer..........will keep everyone posted...........and a big Thank You for all your help :)
-
I am going to have to replace the useless thermometers I have installed in the lid next to the handle. the shaft is too short. there are some long-shaft therms out there that will reach closer to the center of the grates.
I'll google around a bit to see what I can find.
Can you send a pic of the Tel-tru?
-
I am going to have to replace the useless thermometers I have installed in the lid next to the handle. the shaft is too short. there are some long-shaft therms out there that will reach closer to the center of the grates.
I'll google around a bit to see what I can find.
Can you send a pic of the Tel-tru?
You bet
http://toolwizard.com/store/index.cfm/product/500/tel-tru-bbq-pit-thermometer.cfm
I ordered two, gonna put one in the previous hole I drilled which is lined up with the second grate. The next on will be 1.5" above the cooking grate off to the left of the handle.
I used a Tel-Tru for years with my Big Drum Smoker......darn good thermo.....I like the white background so this old buzzard can see the temp markings..........
-
Well you can't call that one "cheap".... $36 ???
I assume the thermometer that came with your grill is a P.O.S. like the ones that come with TBE ;)
-
Well you can't call that one "cheap".... $36 ???
I assume the thermometer that came with your grill is a P.O.S. like the ones that come with TBE ;)
Heck, no thermo came with it at all. I ordered the Old Country version for 16.00 no holler from Academy.......the only thing that thermo is good for is burning ribs.......
-
Tel-tru's are the bomb... We have them on our Backwoods beasties.
Dead on accurate, even when approaching pizza oven temperatures. :o ;D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4j9XPFrsraE/Ujh3U1-rHEI/AAAAAAABqKg/MJRI5QdH8uk/s800/2013-09-14%252016.04.46.jpg)
-
[/quote]
Heck, no thermo came with it at all. I ordered the Old Country version for 16.00 no holler from Academy.......the only thing that thermo is good for is burning ribs.......
[/quote]
I'd like to know what that therm was reading in the lid as you cooked...probably the same as mine reads...B T W, the temp in the lid is not as hot as the temp on the grates (duh) so that is why I want a them at grate level.
Thanks for the tip on Tel-Tru (might be a good sponsor for this sight).
I'll order mine today with a 5 inch stem so it will reach deeper into the middle of the smoker.
-
As I reported in the past, I have used a combination of thermometers to understand the flow of heat in my stick burner. I have used surface grill thermometers such as the ones in this picture below:
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/IMG_20130621_112358_049.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/IMG_20130621_112358_049.jpg.html)
And, located them like this:
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/IMG_20130621_112427_061.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/IMG_20130621_112427_061.jpg.html)
I also use on every cook the Maverick ET-732 connected to the left hand side of the pit on the surface next to the chimney.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/IMG_20130621_111700_596.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/IMG_20130621_111700_596.jpg.html)
The one that I watch the most is this one on the lid.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l494/edsigman/IMG_20130708_170427_827.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/edsigman/media/IMG_20130708_170427_827.jpg.html)
What I found is this:
1. For the right hand surface grill thermometer, it can report as much as 350 degrees.
2. For the middle surface grill thermometer, it reports the same as the lid thermometer which is very interesting.
3. The Maverick is always 20 to 25 degrees lower than the lid thermometer. I watch this inside the house to alert me to fluctuations up or down that I can get up and respond to outside.
So, I trust the Lid thermometer for reporting the heat. The name on this thermometer is Yoder, but when questioned, I was told that it is made by Tru Tel. And it has a long stem. I do not have a second shelf for the long stem to bump into.
If you replace the thermometer with the Tru Tel, I definitely think that you will get a truer reading. I still think that you need to distribute the heat more evenly throughout the pit. That is why I added the heat management plate. If I had purchased the Old Country, as I had given that a good look, I was going to go to a local welding shop and have them make baffle plates for the Old Country. When the baffle plates are only six to eight inches wide, they are not that heavy and depending upon what you are cooking can be placed in different positions under the pit grill grate.
That's my $0.02 worth. So, it is up to you, but you need to know and understand your own pit. If you need to purchase surface grill thermometers or a laser surface heat reader, then do it. You will then understand placement of the meat product and what is happening inside your grill. And, this will help you cook a better product.
Ed
-
Thanks for the link to tel-tru...I just placed my order for a couple of these:
Model: 351I
3" Dial, 50/550 Degrees F, 6" Stem, 1/2" NPT (install into 7/8" drill hole), Back Connection
I'll put one in the lid up top and one in the lid on the left side of the handle.
I'll still use the Mav for the temp monitoring on remote like Ed.
The only problem with oven therms on the grate is that you have to open the smoker to read the temps...I try to keep mine closed for at least 4 to 6 hours before I start peekin'.
-
The only problem with oven therms on the grate is that you have to open the smoker to read the temps...I try to keep mine closed for at least 4 to 6 hours before I start peekin'.
I totally concur with respect to opening and closing the grill cover while cooking. When I first got the stick burner, I acquired the surface grill thermometers in order to understand how this pit works. Yes, I was opening and closing and testing while I made a variety of products. But, now that I know my pit, I don't use them anymore. I just keep the lid closed until I am suppose to do something, like foil the rids and add honey and brown sugar with apple juice. Then it stays covered again until the next step.
It is important to know how your grill responds to temperatures and to temperature changes based upon the changes you make to the grill.
Aw Oh, I am ought of beer. Got to get another Shocktop.
Ed
-
I borrowed my neighbors thermo off of her Yoder last night and drilled away.
Got the thermo mounted.
Ran my fire according to the grate level thermo.
Never went over 225
Used Kingsford and wood chunks to keep the heat in check
-1- rack of ribs
Not burnt but way overdone. Went 5 hours this time
I have been e-mailing and calling 3 different phone numbers to Old Country and never an answer and never a call back.
I talked to a CS manager at Academy and they are giving me a refund. The POS will be picked up thursday.
Academy Rocks. Old Country can pound sand due to their complete lack of being there for their customers.
Made a major decision, grabbed Smoochy and headed over to Orchard Supply...... ;)
-
Dang, Smoke, my ribs never got more than 3 hours (before the foil) on the Old Country. Why 5 hours...I'd be way overdone with that much time.
Wish I could come over and help you out with it. I hate to see you return it so quick.
These were my first ribs on the O C Pecos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_VpzQofvO0
C'mon, man!
-
We are with you Smoke. Keep plugging away
-
I guess that thing must need some type of baffle like VOD talked about :-\
At 225F ribs should not be overdone after 5 hours. Maybe Baby backs but not full spares.
Gotta be the air movement.
Smoke you do what you gotta do. If you feel that unit is not working then change it out.
I think the Weber will fit you just fine until you find a suitable replacement.
-
Could we fabricate a Yoder like heat management plate for it?
-
damn for the money you spent on that maybe get a small backwoods charcoal smoker buddy? a lot of ppl loving their backwoods on this forum. if I see one used I might have to do extra chores for one. ;)
-
Made a major decision, grabbed Smoochy and headed over to Orchard Supply...... ;)
Can't wait to hear the rest of this story...