Let's Talk BBQ
Tips, Tricks & Just Good Advice! => Good to Know! - A collection of How-To's & Sage Advice => Food Safety Issues => Topic started by: MSP on May 23, 2013, 09:17:48 PM
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I read the article here on the dangers of low and slow Turkey.
But outside of Turkey/Poultry is the dangerzone from cooking low and slow and issue with other cuts of meat like Beaf and Pork?
For example Prime Rib is cooked low and slow and is finished at a temperature of 130 degrees a lot of times...which in theory means the Meat never gets out of the dangerzone.
Now I know because a prime rib is a large cut of meat that is intact there are is typically no pathogens or bad bugs past about .5 inches of the surface.
But what about pork or low and slow ribs?
Or is the dangerzone more and issue with poultry?
Thanks
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The danger zone is more of an issue with poultry than beef.
Poultry are carriers of salmonella and beef is not. Salmonella is located in their muscle therefore a higher internal temperature is required to kill it.
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Yeah, I think chicken is cooked pretty fast. I don't know of any diseases beef has. I think hogs used to have trigonometry, or something like that, but they no longer get it so there is no worry about it. Of course, when I was growing up we cooked them low and slow then and still didn't get any of that trigonometry then. I've heard of the danger zone but I would be concerned only with it for poultry. Dee
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I don't even goof around with slo cooking poultry, crank up the heat and stay away from the emergency room. Also when checking temps in whole birds..just don't check the temp in one thigh...check both.......
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The "zone" is typically an extended stay at 140 or less but some meats, like poultry, need even more special handling as has already been pointed out. Most "barbeque" low and slow cooking is smoking, which uses temperatures in the low 200's. Some other methods (Sous Vide, e.g.) are lower and slower.
Remember, it isn't just the cooking time that needs to be considered for "zone" exposure, but also what you do with your hunk of critter after you've cooked it. Meat sitting around on the counter or table during and after the meal is a risk. My rule is 30 minutes from cooker to fridge ;D
Hub
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I got a pretty good understanding of the dangerzone.
My question is more along as far as the Dangerzone "during the cook" the issue seems to be poultry especially large birds like Turkey.
Other cuts of meat like RIBS doesn't seem to have the same danger zone issue "during the cook" as poultry can....am I correct?
I know ALL cuts of meat / food have the same risks of the time / temperature danger zone before the cook (food prep) and after the cook ( food sitting out).
Am I understanding it correctly?
Thanks guys!
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MSP, I think you have it right. When cooking poultry, cook it fast and it spends little time in the DZ if it is handled right before the cooking starts. Dee
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You've got a grip on it. Beef, pork and mutton can be cooked "low and slow" relatively safely but you can't totally ignore good procedure with them. When cooking fowl, smoke it quickly if you want to then get the IT on up. Never cook birds totally low and slow. Don't leave food at room temperature for extended periods. When in doubt about anything, jump on line and do a little research.
Common sense reigns supreme. A friend of mine once cooked the Thanksgiving turkey the night before and then went to bed with the turkey sitting on the counter. Luckily, we found out about it before the meal. She was the only one who ate the turkey and the only one who got sick. Duh. Her "reasoning" was that the bird was cooked and if it was cooked it couldn't spoil ::)
Hub
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To help in preventing bacteria growth I add 1 tablespoon of Tender Quick to each gallon of brine.
It helps inhibits bacterial activity, which is especially important when smoking.
Poultry, with all its nooks and crannies, can be in the danger zone (between 40-140°F) for an extended period.
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The Samonella in poultry can multiply very fast at danger zone temps due to being located through the entire muscle and the high moisture content of the meat.
Quality meat when handled/prepared properly can be eaten raw. Poultry are natural carriers and can contain nasties even if handled properly.
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Are there any ServSafe-certified members who would like to comment? Sometimes I read a lot of "here's what I do..." or "I think..." replies but no one has said, "I'm ServSafe-certified. ServSafe guidelines say..."
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Good point, pmillen. I went looking for their guidelines but ran straight into what amounts to more of a sales pitch for their program. They've bundled their stuff and guard it closely, building a franchise.
https://www.servsafe.com/home
Maybe we have a member who has been through the training and will share . . .
Hub
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Here are the USDA bits from another post:
http://www.letstalkbbq.com/index.php?topic=855.0
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In my profession I get called to go into different restaurant kitchens on occasion to inspect their malfunctioning gas appliance or check for a gas leak. I can tell you that many of these places would make you feel ill if you saw their kitchen's! There is a reason that they are hidden from public view and many have Servsafe certifications hung on the wall :o
With a kitchen that filthy I doubt that their food handling procedures are any better Servsafe Certified or not. Some of their cooking equipment like fryers and grills are just plain nasty. When you open up the doors on the equipment to service it you can find years and years of un cleaned grease and food. And these are places that have a "A" rating from food inspectors. Obviously never opened by the inspectors so no need to clean it I guess ::)
Next time you go out to your favorite restaurant ask them if you can get a peek in their kitchen. See what their reaction is. You will find very few will actually let you look. Then check for their Servsafe certifications on the wall. There are many restaurants who utilize this program but how many actually follow the guidelines and training?
I too would like to hear a Servsafe Certified opinion about this subject but I would think that their guidelines would be very close to the standards the government uses.
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Muebe brings up a good point about Salmonella and moist environments, so please let me clarify a misconception about the use of cures, especially in a poultry brine.
Nitrate/Nitrite Curing salts do NOT kill all bacteria!!!
They kill spoilage bacteria (bacillus) and prevent botulism by killing C. Botulinum. However, they have NOT been shown to directly kill Salmonella or E. Coli, both of which are Faculative Anaerobes. You need heat or certain acidic environments for these bacteria to be destroyed.
Now to be clear, I'm NOT saying don't use cures in your poultry brine. That's perfectly fine because it DOES offer safety benefits. I'm just saying it doesn't take care of the Salmonella.
Like Hub says, "Common Sense Reigns Supreme," so PLEASE cook your poultry in a timely manner. The last thing any of us wants is for someone to get sick.
Hope this makes sense.
Cliff
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I have never had a Salmonella problem with Chicken or Turkey. As long as you take the IT to >165ºF you'll be fine. I personally prefer to take the breasts to 170ºF and the Thighs/drumsticks to >180ºF. My neighbor has worked for Foster Farms for years and yes, it's true that all poultry does inherently have Salmonella but cooking to the proper temperature will and does kill it.
Ever since I started smoking poultry in the Bradley smoker in 2007 and now for years with my pellet smoker-grills I mostly like to smoke at 180º - 225ºF for 1 hour for chickens and 2 hours with turkeys before I bump the temperature to 325º - 400ºF until I reach the internal temperatures I listed above.
Just my 2¢ ... I have never worried about the "Danger Zone" when cooking poultry/turkey cause I never play around with the IT. That's my story ... and I'm sticking to it. No one has ever become sick eating any or my poultry/turkey. Salmonella is nothing to play with. Better be safe than sorry and by all means cook/smoke it at the temps you are comfortable with. Me, I'll take it 170ºF.
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I think hogs used to have trigonometry, or something like that, but they no longer get it so there is no worry about it. Of course, when I was growing up we cooked them low and slow then and still didn't get any of that trigonometry then. Dee
You're correct about "trigonometry" Dee ;)
FYI ...
Pork Myth: Pork Must Be Cooked to Well-Done Due to Trichinae Parasite
Myth: You have to cook pork to well done because pigs often carry a parasite that can lead to a condition known as trichinosis in people if they eat undercooked pork.
Fact: While there is a historical basis for caution regarding trichinosis, it’s no longer a threat that should concern U.S. pork consumers today. In fact, the odds of getting trichinosis from eating pork sold at retail stores is only 1 in 154 million.* Why? Because, the parasite responsible for this disease has been almost completely eliminated from modern pork production. That’s thanks to the American farmers’ adherence to strict production practices and the federal government’s ongoing monitoring programs of farms and processing facilities.
These facts, coupled with properly cooking pork to USDA’s recommended 145 degrees Fahrenheit, a three-minute rest time and proper storage techniques, mean that most of the handful of cases each year is caused by eating wild game meat, not pork. So, it all means eating pork in the 21st century is safer than ever.