Let's Talk BBQ
Tips, Tricks & Just Good Advice! => Good to Know! - A collection of How-To's & Sage Advice => Ask A Butcher! => Topic started by: CDN Smoker on February 05, 2014, 11:27:10 AM
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There is a restaurant where i started going to as a child with my parents. My Dad always had the Kings cut prime rib. Later when I could handle it, I started to order the same. It is a massive hunk of beef with Yorkshire pudding. The Vegetables don't matter. The owner lost his restaurant (didn't know when to fold them :(). He has since opened a smaller, not as fancy but still is doing prime rib.
Now I need the assistance of the butcher. Is a standing rib and a prime rib roast the same thing?
Now his roast always is supper tender, almost don't need a knife but just a fork. I'm assuming to get this tender it would be the same as doing a pork butt in a smoker but how would I go about this in an oven.
Has anyone done this? Open to all and any suggestions.
Thanks,
CDN
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The standing rib and the prime rib are essentially the same thing.
I've always cooked my beef standing rib, prime rib, boneless rib, etc, at 325°......grill or oven and never had a tough piece of meat. Of course there are variations.......1) start at 400° for 30 minutes and then drop back to 325° 2) Reverse sear, start at 225° and finish at 450° and a myriad of other instructions along the way from other folks.
For what you are looking for I'd put in the oven at 225° until you get about 10° away from your final finishing temp, remove from the oven, then bump the oven to 450°, put the roast back in and finish it off.
Only thing that would ruin the rib would be to over cook it :o
The 'Prime' Rib can be either boneless (Rib Eye roast) or with the bone-in (Standing Rib Roast). Technically speaking, a cow has 13 ribs, 1 to 13. 1-4 are left in the Chuck and #13 is left in the loin, leaving us ribs #5 thru #12.
All bone-in whole ribs come from the packer (in the US) with 7 rib bones. For reasons of familiartity and simple butcher talk, we will refer to them as ribs One (near the Loin) through 7 (next to the Chuck).
Also, for all intents and purposes, ONE rib will serve two 'normal' people.
For presentation and prettiness, the first three or four ribs (small end or loin end) will do the job. Less marbling and leaner, but still tasty and tender. They are also the 'prime' of the Rib, hence the name, which has nothing to do with the USDA Grading. However, I would always make sure it's Choice or Prime, no Select. The last three or four ribs (large end or Chuck end), 4-7 or 3-7, more marbling, more fat, less attractive, and in my opinion, MORE flavor. All the ribs roasts I cook are from near the Chuck end. If I get a three rib roast, I like ribs 4,5,6, a four rib roast 3,4,5,6. Nothing wrong with #7, it's just plain ugly (trimmed up it makes a nice steak for the grill).
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Many Thanks Mr. Rummm for taking the time. Greatly appreciate your comments ;D
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I forgot to send you a pm CDN Smoker that I moved your post to Ask a Butcher. You can see by the fast informative response why I moved it here :)
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We had this discussion last year and the bottom line on cooking prime rib perfectly is to cook it low and slow (I do it in a 170o oven - as low as mine will go) till almost done. Foil wrap and rest for 30-90 minutes. Sear at end (500o for about 6 minutes). Carve and eat.
(http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt269/KaHonu/P1070888.jpg)
Here's more than you need to know about prime rib (http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/what-is-prime-rib-questions-how-to-cook-christmas-recipe-dry-aged-wet-aged.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+seriouseatsfeaturesvideos+%28Serious+Eats%29) and the resulting recipe (http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2009/12/perfect-prime-rib-beef-recipe.html), both from seriouseats.com. If you have a sous vide setup, it's definitely worth exploring but I haven't got mine yet so won't talk more about that. Trust me on this one (but read the article and recipe to verify).
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The last three or four ribs (large end or Chuck end), 4-7 or 3-7, more marbling, more fat, less attractive, and in my opinion, MORE flavor.
I agree. That end (sometimes called a Second Cut Rib Roast) is my favorite too, and usually costs less.
I like to coat it with a spicy brown mustard as a glue for the seasoning (salt, pepper, garlic powder & rosemary). The spicy mustard gives a nice hint of horseradish-like flavor to the coating.
That article Ka Honu referenced is the absolute best read I've ever seen on cooking prime rib, and it works best if you like your rib roast more on the rare to med-rare side. I used to follow it to a tee, but now I just cook at around 250° or so, take it off at about 132° - 134° and don't even bother with the final sear anymore. It gives us a nice upper end med-rare just the way our family likes it.
The rest period is CRITICAL! The best advice I was ever given (by scooter) was to stick a thermometer in it when you tent with foil and DO NOT cut into that roast until the temp has stabilized and just started to drop. That's how you know the muscle fibers are starting to relax and your roast will be tender and juicy beyond belief.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-v6HLls5ea-U/UOTNTHwhO1I/AAAAAAAAEU0/NFEjcN_OYow/s720/NYD20134.JPG)
We also do strip loin using the exact same method.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cRUNGl1w4fI/UMLMOgvmxWI/AAAAAAAAD10/zwebFcI6v1Q/s720/SL%2526GM07.JPG)(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lqvF14VqFvI/UMLMO3ZiXTI/AAAAAAAAD10/Hd42SgKJ-_E/s720/SL%2526GM08.JPG)
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If buying a rib roast how would a person which end of the rib rack they are buying? Is it labeled?
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All those pictures of great looking roasts is driving me crazy!
Here is Phil's easy roast instructions...
Have the butcher remove the meat from the ribs and season well. I use Awake-a-Steak. Tie back on the ribs. Have the exact weight. Dust the fat cap with flour and put in fridge. Keep in fridge until moved to the oven. When ready to roast, preheat oven to 500 degrees. Now do the math. 5 minutes per pound. 10 pounds equals 50 minutes. Take from fridge and put in oven and start timer for the amount of minutes needed. Be sure that you rest the roast on its ribs in the pan. When the time expires, turn off the oven. Do not open the door for another 90 minutes. When finished you have a browned roast that is perfect med rare and very juicy. Never fails. Try it just once. Best Phil
I have yet to try it but he told me it works every time! Man I sure miss that guy :'(
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Here's more than you need to know about prime rib (http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/what-is-prime-rib-questions-how-to-cook-christmas-recipe-dry-aged-wet-aged.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+seriouseatsfeaturesvideos+%28Serious+Eats%29) and the resulting recipe (http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2009/12/perfect-prime-rib-beef-recipe.html), both from seriouseats.com.
I've used this recipe for the last couple of years and always had a great roast. (with that said, Capt Jack's recipe seems interesting.)
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I forgot to send you a pm CDN Smoker that I moved your post to Ask a Butcher. You can see by the fast informative response why I moved it here :)
No Problem Smoke, I am sure others ask the same questions. Need to make posts easy to find.
Ka Honu, this is what I want to try. I have a digital Jenn-Air oven. I can do the 150F so this should be fun.
Capt, that roast colour is perfect. Did you cut garlic into the roast?
Tent, I'm going to start hunting for a 4 -7 standing rib
Pappy, good question.
Muebe, I have seen that one before. Going to try the low and slow first.
Gus, glad to hear someone else has tried this before.
Thanks fellas for all the great comments. Now time to start planning ;D
As the saying goes "If you fail to plan you plan to fail".
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If buying a rib roast how would a person which end of the rib rack they are buying? Is it labeled?
The loin (small) end almost looks like a bone-in strip steak.....the chuck (large) end is larger and looks almost like a bone-in fatty rib eye
These are boneless, but you get the idea..........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/askabutcher/pictorials/pr3.jpg)
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Great post and information, I did a 2 rib choice roast in my Bradley for New Years eve and it turned out great, now I have some other options to try.
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The last couple of one's I've done I followed the links from Ka Honu and glad I did.
interesting to me is that I never know anything about the cut and bones, thank you Rummm for this post and the information you provided.
Take a look at the below pics I took and you can see what Rummm is talking about. (I think)
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l501/rdelemos/Prime%20Rib%20Dec%202012/20121224_110006_zpsbaea2b4f.jpg)
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l501/rdelemos/Prime%20Rib%20Dec%202012/20121224_110012_zps20c702f8.jpg)
This looks like the loin (small) end to me
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l501/rdelemos/Prime%20Rib%20Dec%202012/20121224_110021_zps5db2264f.jpg)
And this looks like the chuck (large) end to me
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l501/rdelemos/Prime%20Rib%20Dec%202012/20121225_123009_zpsc911854d.jpg)
And this looks like dinner :D
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interesting to me is that I never know anything about the cut and bones, thank you Rummm for this post and the information you provided.
Take a look at the below pics I took and you can see what Rummm is talking about. (I think)
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l501/rdelemos/Prime%20Rib%20Dec%202012/20121224_110012_zps20c702f8.jpg)
This looks like the loin (small) end to me
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l501/rdelemos/Prime%20Rib%20Dec%202012/20121224_110021_zps5db2264f.jpg)
And this looks like the chuck (large) end to me
What you think is the 'loin' end is actually the Chuck end cut.
The second pic is the center cut. Notice the deckle muscle on top? The small end does not have that. The muscle will appear about 3 bones in and then get larger towards the chuck end.
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OK...............
Rib loin end (small)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/askabutcher/AAB2014-1/smallend.jpg)
Rib chuck end (large)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/askabutcher/AAB2014-1/chuckend.jpg)
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And now I'm hungry!!!! :)
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Ok, went down to my favourite butcher shop and reviewed what he had on display. He couldn't find anything so I got to see in the back, way to much fun. We looked at few more and didn't see anything I liked.
So I left it with him, I want ribs 4,5,6 with good marbling.
Now how to prepare. I'm going with Mr. Ka Honu's advice and the temp will 170F till finished with a high heat sear 500F. Will need that for the yourshire anyway.
This is the recipe I will follow, any comments appreciated ;D
http://www.finecooking.com/recipes/slow-roasted-beef-standing-rib-roast.aspx
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I've become a "slice the bones off (or almost off), season and reassemble with twine" before cooking guy. Easier to carve and distributes the seasoning to all surfaces of the roast as well as the bones.
CDN - Let us know how that rub works out - sounds interesting.
Also, in a low temp cook, most of the juices stay in the meat instead of dripping into the roasting pan so you may need to adjust any plans for gravy or au jus.
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What Turtle said... and you can probably find good info about that prep and cook style on America's Test Kitchen or Cooks Country. Same outfit - 2 different programs....I have seen the episode.
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I've become a "slice the bones off (or almost off), season and reassemble with twine" before cooking guy.
I used to do that, but anymore I leave the bones off in favor of more surface area for more crust. I save the rib bones for beef ribs & use the chine bone (the flat boney plate) for making stock. Just another option.
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We are really lucky to have Rummm as a resource. He always does a great job with great pics.
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Thanks Rummm for clearing that up for me. I will get this one day.
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We are really lucky to have Rummm as a resource. He always does a great job with great pics.
Totally agree, this has and still is a great learning experience.
What Turtle said... and you can probably find good info about that prep and cook style on America's Test Kitchen or Cooks Country. Same outfit - 2 different programs....I have seen the episode.
I have watched the video at least twice. Will watch it again, thanks "T". This time I would like to try off the bone according to Cooks.
Tent, please thank Scooter for his advice. I won't touch the roast until the temp stabilizes and starts to drop.
From Cooks Line of fine magazines ;D. Well worth the investment for an on line subscription. Hope it's ok to say this.
INSTRUCTIONS
1. Using sharp knife, cut slits in surface layer of fat, spaced 1 inch apart, in crosshatch pattern, being careful to cut down to, but not into, meat. Rub 2 tablespoons salt over entire roast and into slits. Place meat back on bones (to save space in refrigerator), transfer to large plate, and refrigerate, uncovered, at least 24 hours and up to 96 hours.
Not sure I will rub and leave the roast in the fridge for 96hrs, 24hrs for sure
2. Adjust oven rack to middle position and heat oven to 200 degrees. Heat oil in 12-inch skillet over high heat until just smoking. Sear sides and top of roast (reserving bone) until browned, 6 to 8 minutes total (do not sear side where roast was cut from bone). Place meat back on ribs, so bones fit where they were cut, and let cool for 10 minutes; tie meat to bones with 2 lengths of twine between ribs. Transfer roast, fat side up, to wire rack set in rimmed baking sheet and season with pepper. Roast until meat registers 110 degrees, 3 to 4 hours.
as I said earlier I would like to try 170F, anyone have a time per pound/kg at this temp?
don't think I will use the rest of the recipe, back to the one I posted
3. Turn off oven; leave roast in oven, opening door as little as possible, until meat registers about 120 degrees for rare or about 125 degrees for medium-rare, 30 to 75 minutes longer.
4. Remove roast from oven (leave roast on baking sheet), tent loosely with aluminum foil, and let rest for at least 30 minutes and up to 75 minutes.
5. Adjust oven rack about 8 inches from broiler element and heat broiler. Remove foil from roast, form into 3-inch ball, and place under ribs to elevate fat cap. Broil until top of roast is well browned and crisp, 2 to 8 minutes.
6. Transfer roast to carving board; cut twine and remove roast from ribs. Slice meat into 3/4-inch-thick slices. Season with coarse salt to taste, and serve.
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I wonder why they sear it first and still brown it in a hot oven later. Searing in this case seems like an old habit we no longer remember why we do. It doesn't "lock in" flavors or moisture - we do it on a grill with steak (where cooking time is relatively short) simply because most people can go from a hot grill to a cooler one much faster than cooler to hot.
At 170o I usually figure for about 40 minutes a pound but I use a remote thermometer to tell me when it's done. The good news is that you can rest the roast before browning anywhere up to 90 minutes so you get some flexibility in serving time if it gets done earlier than you thought it would.
I don't salt or season that far ahead although I do try to let most meat "dry" in the fridge for a day. In my world you only salt ahead if you want to dry brine for some reason. On a Choice or Prime standing rib, I'm good with the way it comes off the cow until about ten minutes before it goes in the oven.
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I'll keep this here for now.
I was called down to my butcher shop to pick up my roast. He didn't want to open it up until I OKed it. I said ok crack her,
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/lmh8/image_zpseaf6042e.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/lmh8/media/image_zpseaf6042e.jpg.html)
Cutting out my 4 to 7 bones
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/lmh8/image_zps06489aeb.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/lmh8/media/image_zps06489aeb.jpg.html)
Side view
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/lmh8/image_zps7e4e0854.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/lmh8/media/image_zps7e4e0854.jpg.html)
I was going to leave the bones on but changed my mine. I should have had him let me do it :(
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/lmh8/image_zps1a5b11ee.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/lmh8/media/image_zps1a5b11ee.jpg.html)
He tied the bones back on and into the vac
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/lmh8/image_zpsed5c9f14.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/lmh8/media/image_zpsed5c9f14.jpg.html)
Here's what I call "Shock and Aww". He said this is a Black Angus, better marbling than Triple A ???
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/lmh8/image_zps0fcce42a.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/lmh8/media/image_zps0fcce42a.jpg.html)
Ok here is where I'm asking for comments.
3.346kg = 7.377lbs X 40min per lb = 295.04 / 60 = 4.917 hrs @ 170F. I'm hoping this will give me a cut with a fork tender roast ;D
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What time we eating buddy? That is a fine looking piece of beef!
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If it is good grain fed Canadian beef...Will it taste like a Molson? 8) I like Molson and steak!
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Cocktails & h'orderves at 4:30. Dinner will be served at 6 ;D
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Cocktails & h'orderves at 4:30. Dinner will be served at 6 ;D
Putting on jet-pack and cross country skis now. Hey Pappy - wanna race to Drew's house? ;D :D
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Cocktails & h'orderves at 4:30. Dinner will be served at 6 ;D
Putting on jet-pack and cross country skis now. Hey Pappy - wanna race to Drew's house? ;D :D
You have no shot buddy. I'll enjoy your piece of that fine meat.
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:D :D :D :D
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Here is Phil's easy roast instructions...
Have the butcher remove the meat from the ribs and season well. I use Awake-a-Steak. Tie back on the ribs. Have the exact weight. Dust the fat cap with flour and put in fridge. Keep in fridge until moved to the oven. When ready to roast, preheat oven to 500 degrees. Now do the math. 5 minutes per pound. 10 pounds equals 50 minutes. Take from fridge and put in oven and start timer for the amount of minutes needed. Be sure that you rest the roast on its ribs in the pan. When the time expires, turn off the oven. Do not open the door for another 90 minutes. When finished you have a browned roast that is perfect med rare and very juicy. Never fails. Try it just once. Best Phil
I have yet to try it but he told me it works every time! Man I sure miss that guy :'(
I saw this and decided I had to try it. Although I realize pre-seasoning and low and slow cooking would be the way to go for a perfect rib roast, I thought that if this was any good, it would make having some prime rib for dinner after a day of work easy. Anyway, I ran down to a local store and got a 6 1/2 pound standing rib roast for about $43, cut the bones out, put some sea salt and fresh pepper on, tied the bones back on, dusted the fat cap with flour and put into the fridge while the oven heated up. My only adjustment was to do 6 minutes per pound since my wife won't eat if too rare, and having to heat up the grill to cook hers a little more would of ended the quick and easy concept. Anyway, after turning the oven off I prepped some hasselbeck potatoes, and threw them on the SRG with about 55 minutes of resting left.
Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures, I had a lot going on and was hungry.. But the roast was cooked perfectly, had a nice crust and nice and juicy, but not to raw for my wife. It wasn't as tender as a low and slow would be, but it was very good for a quick and easy dinner, and only cost a little more than getting takeout from one of the local restaurants. This is not a cook I would do on a weekend when I want to spend time preparing some great meat, or when I had guests coming over for a nice dinner, but I WILL do it again for a quick and easy dinner.
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Daze I am glad that Phil's recipe worked for you. If he was still around he would be very happy to hear that :)