Let's Talk BBQ
Cured Meats & Food Preservation => Cured meats & Food Preservation => Charcuterie: Ham, Bacon, Sausage, etc. => Topic started by: Smokerjunky on July 28, 2015, 05:49:47 PM
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I was in the Business Costco last weekend and saw skinned pork belly for $1.99 a pound. It seemed like a reasonable price to experiment with so here we go.
I started the process last night. 5 days to cure in the fridge, will pull and rinse on Saturday PM back in fridge on drying rack to form pellicle then Sunday to the smoker at 170 degrees until IT hits 150 degrees. Then vac seal overnight after it cools.
I sure hope this works!!!!! ??? ??? ???
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4117_zpspwk2o0xk.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4117_zpspwk2o0xk.jpg.html)
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4116_zpszyviin2i.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4116_zpszyviin2i.jpg.html)
I cut the full belly into two 5 lb chunks to make it easier to handle and cure
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4125_zpssvjik1gh.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4125_zpssvjik1gh.jpg.html)
The cure consists of a recipe I found online 2/3 Cup Kosher Salt 2/3 Cup Granulated Sugar 4 Tsp Pink Curing Salt #1
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4126_zps8xarnpbe.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4126_zps8xarnpbe.jpg.html)
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Will be watching and looking. Need to make a Costco run ;)
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I found the same thing last week except mine was already sliced and at $2.99 per pound. I like what you bought better.
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I'll be watching.
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Looking good Smoker! Ah when you get a chance...a BLT please! :D
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I read you ingredient amounts and sirens immediately started going off.
Your salt & sugar might be OK, but that is twice the amount of Cure #1 than you should be using for 10 lbs of pork belly.
I would rinse it off and start over.
For reference, if you're using using a dry-rub cure here is a really good resource to calculate salt, sugar and Cure #1.
http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/calculator/dry_cure_bacon/
Note: 6 grams of cure #1 = 1 level tsp.
Also 5 days may not be long enough. Before doing the soak, I'd recommend slicing a piece off (towards the middle) and fry it up to test it. That way you are not guessing.
Don't mean to sound negative, but we want folks to be safe with this stuff! :)
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SJ - Bacon is my favorite thing to make. And you found a killer deal! I pay more than that for bellies w/skin, and I live in the No#2 pork production state in the U.S.
Here is a thread that has a lot of supportive information for curing ham - but much of the same info applies to any meat you are curing.
http://www.letstalkbbq.com/index.php?topic=7137.0
Safety first- we want you to be happy...AND healthy! ;D
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I read you ingredient amounts and sirens immediately started going off.
Your salt & sugar might be OK, but that is twice the amount of Cure #1 than you should be using for 10 lbs of pork belly.
I would rinse it off and start over.
For reference, if you're using using a dry-rub cure here is a really good resource to calculate salt, sugar and Cure #1.
http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/calculator/dry_cure_bacon/
Note: 6 grams of cure #1 = 1 level tsp.
Also 5 days may not be long enough. Before doing the soak, I'd recommend slicing a piece off (towards the middle) and fry it up to test it. That way you are not guessing.
Don't mean to sound negative, but we want folks to be safe with this stuff! :)
TH - No worries - not taken as negative at all. This is why I use this site - more information is better although it can get a bit confusing.
This is my first try at it and of course I want it to turn out and more importantly BE SAFE. The recipe I used was from Steven Reichlin's How To Grill book. His cure was for 5 pounds of bacon and is a dry cure rub so I doubled for 10 punds of belly. His recommendation is to cure in the fridge for 5 days turning once a day. Rinse well then pat dry and let sit in fridge on a rack over a drip pan for 4 hrs to overnight to form the pellicle so it will pick up the smoke. Smoke to an IT of 150 degrees and let cool.
When you say to slice a piece out of the middle and fry it up - how is that going to tell me if it is correct? I am not sure I will know what I am tasting for since there won't be any smoke on it.
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SJ - Bacon is my favorite thing to make. And you found a killer deal! I pay more than that for bellies w/skin, and I live in the No#2 pork production state in the U.S.
Here is a thread that has a lot of supportive information for curing ham - but much of the same info applies to any meat you are curing.
http://www.letstalkbbq.com/index.php?topic=7137.0
Safety first- we want you to be happy...AND healthy! ;D
Hi TeeSquare - thanks for the info. I am still new to all this (first try at curing bacon) I guess I am a bit confused about the wet brine -vs- the recipe I found in Steven Raichlin's BBQ Bible for a dry rub cure. I have used a lot of his recipes and methods with pretty good success but am concerned that there is question on the safety of his dry bacon cure method. Above all - SAFETY rules for me when smoking/grilling and I thought he was a trusted source of information.
So this begs the question - is there a difference in methods and measurements for a dry rub cure -vs- a wet brine cure bath? That question applies to both measurements of ingredients and length of curing times. I read the thread you attached and I guess I am a bit concerned that the spoilage factor increases with a longer curing time if I read that correctly.
I am way more concerend about safety than I am ruining a $20 slab of pork belly.
Any thoughts/advice is appreciated.
Thanks
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I am going to throw my "for what it's worth" into this. I have made lots of Bacon and use Chris's (10.5) recipe for Maple Cured Bacon. I am posting his recipe as he has posted it on other forums so hopefully he will not mind me posting it here. His recipe is as follows:
2 oz. Kosher salt (about 1/4 cup)
2 tsp. Cure #1 (aka pink salt, InstaCure #1, Prague Powder #1)
1/4 C. Maple sugar or packed brown sugar
1/4 C. Maple syrup
5 lb. fresh pork belly
(Makes enough for a 5 lb. belly)
His recipe and procedure is posted here http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?542-Maple-Cured-Bacon
If you note, this is for 5 pounds and used 2 teaspoons of cure #1. Now I agree that one should use 1 teaspoon of cure #1 per 5 pounds of meat IF you are grinding and stuffing sausage. However my thought process is that if you are using a rub to cure the meat you are not going to get all of the nitrate into the meat because of all of the liquid it is pulling out. We are not injecting the meat like one would if making a ham. We are rubbing the meat down and letting it cure from the outside in.
This recipe produces a lot of moisture and your meat will be sitting in quite a bit of liquid. This liquid is going to contain a fair amount of cure #1 so it is not all going into the meat. I will be the first to confess that I am not an expert in Bacon Makin but I have made a fair amount of it and I will not be afraid to make more of this recipe using 2 tsp of cure per 5 pounds.
I think this is a great discussion and I may be doing it all wrong.
Not trying to start an argument about the amount of cure. Just posting my thoughts about the dry rub recipes calling for 2 tsp of cure VS wet brine processes.
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I am going to throw my "for what it's worth" into this. I have made lots of Bacon and use Chris's (10.5) recipe for Maple Cured Bacon. I am posting his recipe as he has posted it on other forums so hopefully he will not mind me posting it here. His recipe is as follows:
2 oz. Kosher salt (about 1/4 cup)
2 tsp. Cure #1 (aka pink salt, InstaCure #1, Prague Powder #1)
1/4 C. Maple sugar or packed brown sugar
1/4 C. Maple syrup
5 lb. fresh pork belly
(Makes enough for a 5 lb. belly)
His recipe and procedure is posted here http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?542-Maple-Cured-Bacon
If you note, this is for 5 pounds and used 2 teaspoons of cure #1. Now I agree that one should use 1 teaspoon of cure #1 per 5 pounds of meat IF you are grinding and stuffing sausage. However my thought process is that if you are using a rub to cure the meat you are not going to get all of the nitrate into the meat because of all of the liquid it is pulling out. We are not injecting the meat like one would if making a ham. We are rubbing the meat down and letting it cure from the outside in.
This recipe produces a lot of moisture and your meat will be sitting in quite a bit of liquid. This liquid is going to contain a fair amount of cure #1 so it is not all going into the meat. I will be the first to confess that I am not an expert in Bacon Makin but I have made a fair amount of it and I will not be afraid to make more of this recipe using 2 tsp of cure per 5 pounds.
I think this is a great discussion and I may be doing it all wrong.
Not trying to start an argument about the amount of cure. Just posting my thoughts about the dry rub recipes calling for 2 tsp of cure VS wet brine processes.
Thanks for joining the conversation - the more info the better. This is nearly the exact recipe I followed with the 4 tsp of pink curing salt. The one big discrepency I am finding is that most curing times, regardless of the ingredients are 7 days and the recipe I used from Steven Raichlen is for 5 days of curing time.
Like you I did a dry brine and did not inject it into the slabs. It is pulling a lot of the moisture out of the meat which I understood to be the goal.
Thanks everyone for the discussion - this is a great learning site and I appreciate ALL of the information.
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It takes 5 to 7 days to cure depending on thickness and if skin on or off. Do not drain the liquid off until it is cured and ready to rinse and smoke. The meat should be firm if you press on it when cured. If soft it needs more time.
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So this begs the question - is there a difference in methods and measurements for a dry rub cure -vs- a wet brine cure bath? That question applies to both measurements of ingredients and length of curing times. I read the thread you attached and I guess I am a bit concerned that the spoilage factor increases with a longer curing time if I read that correctly.
In short...YES. There are several folks here that are well versed in explaining the differences, Sailor being one of them, and Tenthunter. I asked Tent to write a food safety oriented thread ( the one I referred you to ) because meat curing is one of the most "tricky" aspects of our mutual love of food.
There are a lot of variables - and some rules that should be "hard and fast" for all of us. This of course are the ones about safety. There are a variety of "cures" on the market. They may be only one ingredient, or blends and at differing strengths. ( I think nepas did a thread with pictures of most of the ones out there...?)
Just a couple of things that I can point to that I hope help:
1. Use enough cure - but no more. More is not better, it has it's own health concerns when we use too much cure. Weigh it where possible ( for larger batches ) for accuracy.
2. You can leave a meat product in brine ( wet or dry) longer than recommended - but not less. The osmotic process ensures that you will reach an equilibrium once the meat has adsorbed the cure, and expressed fluids back out, but it will not become more "salty" if you leave it longer. Again, osmosis - and an accurate amount of cure.
If you try a pice of anything you have cured and find it tastes too salty for you - don't be afraid to rinse it off, and soak it in clean - preferably filtered, dechlorinated water. Distilled or reverse osmosis processed works best - because there are not chemicals or salts to alter the flavor or interfere with the de-salting via immersion in clean water. You will not be "un-curing" the meat, that process once complete is not easily reversed, but the osmotic effect will help you remove too much salt ( not curing salt so much as sodium chloride).
There are studies that suggest ( some say they are conclusive - (I am not an "absolutist"...but I try to err on the side of prudence) using too much cure can be detrimental to your health. Without scaring you, I recommend that you research the links in the threads at the top of the cCharcuterie section, and even on the USDA sits pertaining to curing meat, and - as always...we are here to help you be successful, not make anyone feel inept. I have no tolerance for anyone feeling like they have been talked down to. You can post any questions you have - and trust this body of members will do their absolute best to help you get the best, and safe results.
Keep up the good work!
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So this begs the question - is there a difference in methods and measurements for a dry rub cure -vs- a wet brine cure bath? That question applies to both measurements of ingredients and length of curing times. I read the thread you attached and I guess I am a bit concerned that the spoilage factor increases with a longer curing time if I read that correctly.
In short...YES. There are several folks here that are well versed in explaining the differences, Sailor being one of them, and Tenthunter. I asked Tent to write a food safety oriented thread ( the one I referred you to ) because meat curing is one of the most "tricky" aspects of our mutual love of food.
There are a lot of variables - and some rules that should be "hard and fast" for all of us. This of course are the ones about safety. There are a variety of "cures" on the market. They may be only one ingredient, or blends and at differing strengths. ( I think nepas did a thread with pictures of most of the ones out there...?)
Just a couple of things that I can point to that I hope help:
1. Use enough cure - but no more. More is not better, it has it's own health concerns when we use too much cure. Weigh it where possible ( for larger batches ) for accuracy.
2. You can leave a meat product in brine ( wet or dry) longer than recommended - but not less. The osmotic process ensures that you will reach an equilibrium once the meat has adsorbed the cure, and expressed fluids back out, but it will not become more "salty" if you leave it longer. Again, osmosis - and an accurate amount of cure.
If you try a pice of anything you have cured and find it tastes too salty for you - don't be afraid to rinse it off, and soak it in clean - preferably filtered, dechlorinated water. Distilled or reverse osmosis processed works best - because there are not chemicals or salts to alter the flavor or interfere with the de-salting via immersion in clean water. You will not be "un-curing" the meat, that process once complete is not easily reversed, but the osmotic effect will help you remove too much salt ( not curing salt so much as sodium chloride).
There are studies that suggest ( some say they are conclusive - (I am not an "absolutist"...but I try to err on the side of prudence) using too much cure can be detrimental to your health. Without scaring you, I recommend that you research the links in the threads at the top of the cCharcuterie section, and even on the USDA sits pertaining to curing meat, and - as always...we are here to help you be successful, not make anyone feel inept. I have no tolerance for anyone feeling like they have been talked down to. You can post any questions you have - and trust this body of members will do their absolute best to help you get the best, and safe results.
Keep up the good work!
WOW - so much GREAT information - Tee thank you for taking the time to dig into that - I am feeling more comfortable now and less confused. I too like to err on the side of being overly-cautious (especially when it comes to the health and safety of my family). It sounds like a longer curing time is a better way to go so I will check it at 5 days but likely push it more to the seven day cure as it seems that is recommended on nearly every site I have read.
Thanks again EVERYONE - I love this site and the information and help provided.
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You are always welcome!
I don't get to contribute like I wish - but every now and then I catch a few minutes to actually sit and think....and then my head hurts :D :D :D :D
Seriously - fire away with your questions, and you will get a lot of responses. And while we can cook any number of ways and have good results - we also want you to be safe when dealing with meat curing. It need not be intimidating, nor particularly difficult - but the waiting time is aggravating, because you just want to get 'er done and eat! ;) But patience pays off.
For me - the wet brining of bacon ( the Cider Mill Recipe in the Charcuterie section ) is my favorite. A balance of sweet/salt and then I like to cold smoke with 100% cherry wood, then finish hot ( 165-175F until belly IT ruche 150-155F )smoking with the same. The color and flavor this step adds are hard to beat - for my taste buds.
And, I feel that full immersion - is most likely to give you an evenly cured product in a predictable time, due to the entire slab of pork belly being submerged. But, this is only my preference, and experimenting is the fun part.
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OK, I'm going to chime in with this at the risk of upsetting someone, BUT this is important!
First, I absolutely stand behind what I posted above. I would rinse it off and start over using the correct amount of Cure #1! That recipe uses twice the amount of cure #1 than the USDA recommends!
The recipe often attributed to Chris (Tenpoint5) is NOT his recipe (Chris himself has mentioned this before), and it too uses approximately twice the amount the amount of cure #1 as prescribed by the USDA - according to the USDA Processing Inspector's Calculations Handbook (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf).
The salt and sugar in that recipe are fine, The ONLY thing I would adjust is the amount of cure #1 to stay within USDA limits. I have double checked the calculations and 1 teaspoons per 5 lb of meat will keep you within the 200 ppm of ingoing nitrite limit, irregardless of how much brine it produces in the bag.
The key point is that the briny liquid produced IS part of the green weight of the meat and is therefore part of that calculation!
Remember (like Tee mentioned above about the osmotic process), the salt & sugar AND nitrite ALL get carried into the meat. The salt and sugar continue to move in and out until equilibrium is reached. The same is NOT true for the nitrite. As it bonds with the iron molecule in the myoglobin, it gets locked in, so to speak, and can therefore exceed safe limits.
Think about this: even if the liquid produced does contains some nitrite, the amount of liquid compared to the meat is miniscule. The majority of the nitrite is uptaken into the meat.
Again, if you look at the link I posted above for the Bacon Calculator, you will see it too backs up what I'm saying here.
Now on to the question that Smokerjunky asked:
When you say to slice a piece out of the middle and fry it up - how is that going to tell me if it is correct? I am not sure I will know what I am tasting for since there won't be any smoke on it.
You are testing for
1) Salt/sugar level (is it to your liking),
and MOST IMPORTANTLY...
2) Did you get a thorough cure? When you slowly fry a piece up, does the pink color remain throughout the entire thickness, indicating a thorough cure, OR... does the center turn gray when you cook it indicating more cure time is needed.
I sure hope this makes sense, and no-one is offended, as that is not my intent. We need to be sure we are following USDA guidelines on this.
Cliff
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Cliff makes a valid argument and after thinking about it I agree with what he says. I can say that Cliff does know his stuff about blood chemistry. I completely overlooked the fact that the moisture IS part of the green weight. What I find interesting is that the recipe for Maple Cured Bacon has been posted for years and no one has ever caught the cure level and challenged it. I know many people have used that recipe and pounds and pounds of that bacon have been made that have been over cured. I just changed that recipe in my file to show the correct amount of cure.
I for one am happy that this thread was made and for the discussions that it generated. Cliff, I thank you for your input and your expertise in curing. I have learned something today and that is a good thing. BTW if I was the person that you were afraid of offending rest assured that I was not offended.
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I don't want to offend anyone either but I too have cured hundreds of pounds of bacon and have always used 2 tsps of pink salt in a dry rub curing method per 5 lbs of pork belly . I also use the 7 day curing period.
Pink salt can indeed be a dangerous additive if an excessive amount is used but remember the USDA is the same group that forces the labeling of any cured meat that is cured with celery juice or powder which contains nitrites as an "uncured product" because they can't decide how much celery juice or powder is safe.
To each his own.
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OK, I'm going to chime in with this at the risk of upsetting someone, BUT this is important!
First, I absolutely stand behind what I posted above. I would rinse it off and start over using the correct amount of Cure #1! That recipe uses twice the amount of cure #1 than the USDA recommends!
The recipe often attributed to Chris (Tenpoint5) is NOT his recipe (Chris himself has mentioned this before), and it too uses approximately twice the amount the amount of cure #1 as prescribed by the USDA - according to the USDA Processing Inspector's Calculations Handbook (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf).
The salt and sugar in that recipe are fine, The ONLY thing I would adjust is the amount of cure #1 to stay within USDA limits. I have double checked the calculations and 1 teaspoons per 5 lb of meat will keep you within the 200 ppm of ingoing nitrite limit, irregardless of how much brine it produces in the bag.
The key point is that the briny liquid produced IS part of the green weight of the meat and is therefore part of that calculation!
Remember (like Tee mentioned above about the osmotic process), the salt & sugar AND nitrite ALL get carried into the meat. The salt and sugar continue to move in and out until equilibrium is reached. The same is NOT true for the nitrite. As it bonds with the iron molecule in the myoglobin, it gets locked in, so to speak, and can therefore exceed safe limits.
Think about this: even if the liquid produced does contains some nitrite, the amount of liquid compared to the meat is miniscule. The majority of the nitrite is uptaken into the meat.
Again, if you look at the link I posted above for the Bacon Calculator, you will see it too backs up what I'm saying here.
Now on to the question that Smokerjunky asked:
When you say to slice a piece out of the middle and fry it up - how is that going to tell me if it is correct? I am not sure I will know what I am tasting for since there won't be any smoke on it.
You are testing for
1) Salt/sugar level (is it to your liking),
and MOST IMPORTANTLY...
2) Did you get a thorough cure? When you slowly fry a piece up, does the pink color remain throughout the entire thickness, indicating a thorough cure, OR... does the center turn gray when you cook it indicating more cure time is needed.
I sure hope this makes sense, and no-one is offended, as that is not my intent. We need to be sure we are following USDA guidelines on this.
Cliff
First let me say that none of this is offensive to me - my perceived intent/process of the site seems to be working as intended :)
Cliff my question now changes a bit - by tonight I will be three full days into the curing process. Is it still safe at this point to rinse the belly with cold water and remix all ingredients cutting the pink salt in half and continuing the process? I would imagine that the curing that has already occured over the three days will remain in the meat (ie -pink salt) and that I would remain on the path to 7 full days of curing - so four days left even if I rinse and re-mix/re-bag. I will lose the brine that has currently been produced by the three days of curing if I rinse and re-bag in new bags.
Thanks for the clarification on what to look for if I cut it open after 7 days and fry a piece (looking for grey coloring).
This is all helpful information - I had no idea when I posted this it would create such a 'spirited' discussion.
Thanks again EVERYONE for the conversation and posts!!!
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I will certainly yield to Cliff's opinion but my opinion is if you are already 3 full days into the curing process, the vast amount of the curing salt is already in the meat and can't be rinsed off. Starting over would add even more curing salt to the belly.
Your bacon is safe to eat "as is". If the amount of curing salt you used concerns you then use Cliff's amount the next time you make your bacon.
Like I said, I'll yield to Cliff.
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I will certainly yield to Cliff's opinion but my opinion is if you are already 3 full days into the curing process, the vast amount of the curing salt is already in the meat and can't be rinsed off. Starting over would add even more curing salt to the belly.
Your bacon is safe to eat "as is". If the amount of curing salt you used concerns you then use Cliff's amount the next time you make your bacon.
Like I said, I'll yield to Cliff.
Yep, I agree. All the Bacon that I have made has had the 2 tsp per 5 pounds and I'm still kicking. My insides may be cured but I am still alive ;D
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Since I have been drug into this. I feel the nessesity to reply. No the bacon recipe I use and am named for was not created by me. Yes there has been several discussions about the amount of cure in the recipe.
This is not a completely dry dry curing process. The addition of the maple syrup is why there is extra cure in the mix. The extra cure is there to account for the cure that will remain suspended in the syrup and NEVER come in contact with the meat.
That's it that's the reason. It's already been debated. So I won't do it again. Friendships have been tested over it, a few even lost. The recipe has been used to make more bacon than I care to try and count, with no ill effects.
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Since I have been drug into this. I feel the nessesity to reply. No the bacon recipe I use and am named for was not created by me. Yes there has been several discussions about the amount of cure in the recipe.
This is not a completely dry dry curing process. The addition of the maple syrup is why there is extra cure in the mix. The extra cure is there to account for the cure that will remain suspended in the syrup and NEVER come in contact with the meat.
That's it that's the reason. It's already been debated. So I won't do it again. Friendships have been tested over it, a few even lost. The recipe has been used to make more bacon than I care to try and count, with no ill effects.
Glad to see your still around, and very well stated I might say :) :) :)
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The addition of the maple syrup is why there is extra cure in the mix. The extra cure is there to account for the cure that will remain suspended in the syrup and NEVER come in contact with the meat.
I have seen the original poster of that recipe make that argument. Please allow me to explain why I don't buy into it.
There are two basic principles of chemistry at work here: 1) Osmosis/Diffusion, and 2) Solutions versus Suspensions.
1) Osmosis/Diffusion: is when solvent particles can move through semi-permeable membranes to an area of higher/lower concentration (respectively).
2) Solutions versus suspensions:
● Anything water soluble, when mixed with water, forms a solution.
Example: Salt and sugar dissolve in water and become evenly distributed throughout the solution which now acts as a single unit.
● Anything NON-Water soluble, when mixed in water, forms a suspension.
Example: A ground spice added to a brine - The spice, itself, does not dissolve and therefore remains suspended until it either settles or floats to the surface.
3) Maple syrup and sodium nitrite are both water soluble and dissolve (along with the salt) as liquid is pulled from the meat to form a brine solution.
This means that sodium nitrite CANNOT simply remain suspended in the syrup (or never come into contact with the meat). The salt, sugar/syrup & nitrite become evenly distributed throughout the brine solution which moves as a single unit freely in and out the meat's cellular structure by means of osmosis/diffusion.
This begs the question: Does some of the nitrite remain outside the meat in the brine? Yes, of course it does!
THEREFORE it becomes a matter of the concentration of nitrite present in the brine that's formed in relation to the meat. Since we are not adding additional water or injecting, we are relying solely on the green weight of the meat and assuming equilibrium for our calculations.
As long as proper concentrations of nitrite are used, the majority of what's picked up by the meat bonds to the iron molecules in the myoglobin and oxidizes (that's why the meat stays pink). If the concentrations are too high, then extra un-oxidized nitrite remains in the meat once equilibrium has been reached. It's this extra nitrite that becomes the concern.
Again, I reference the Bacon calculator link I posted above. Please check it out for yourselves, and be sure to select the U.S. standards
Does this mean you're going to poison yourself if you use 2 teaspoons of Cure #1 per 5 lbs of meat? Probably not, BUT why use extra when it's not needed? It's better IMHO to use what the USDA recommends and stay safe!
That's my 2¢ worth and I'm sticking to it! ;)
Now on to Smokerjunky's question:
Cliff my question now changes a bit - by tonight I will be three full days into the curing process. Is it still safe at this point to rinse the belly with cold water and remix all ingredients cutting the pink salt in half and continuing the process? I would imagine that the curing that has already occured over the three days will remain in the meat (ie -pink salt) and that I would remain on the path to 7 full days of curing - so four days left even if I rinse and re-mix/re-bag. I will lose the brine that has currently been produced by the three days of curing if I rinse and re-bag in new bags.
I tend to agree with Larry (KYNOLA) much of it has probably already worked it's way into the meat. Like Chris (TenPoint5) mentioned this is NOT a dry cure. This is a dry-rub cure which then creates its own brine, so it's a wet cure process.
At this point I think I'd wait until tomorrow then simply pour off the brine, which will prevent any further intake of Nitrite and allow what's in the bacon to equalize during the remainder of a 7-day curing process. You may want to re-apply more Maple syrup when you do this.
Again my point is NOT to argue or offend anyone. You guys are my brothers and sisters on the Web. I just like to understand this stuff and want us all to be as safe as possible!
Cliff
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The addition of the maple syrup is why there is extra cure in the mix. The extra cure is there to account for the cure that will remain suspended in the syrup and NEVER come in contact with the meat.
I have seen the original poster of that recipe make that argument. Please allow me to explain why I don't buy into it.
There are two basic principles of chemistry at work here: 1) Osmosis/Diffusion, and 2) Solutions versus Suspensions.
1) Osmosis/Diffusion: is when solvent particles can move through semi-permeable membranes to an area of higher/lower concentration (respectively).
2) Solutions versus suspensions:
● Anything water soluble, when mixed with water, forms a solution.
Example: Salt and sugar dissolve in water and become evenly distributed throughout the solution which now acts as a single unit.
● Anything NON-Water soluble, when mixed in water, forms a suspension.
Example: A ground spice added to a brine - The spice, itself, does not dissolve and therefore remains suspended until it either settles or floats to the surface.
3) Maple syrup and sodium nitrite are both water soluble and dissolve (along with the salt) as liquid is pulled from the meat to form a brine solution.
This means that sodium nitrite CANNOT simply remain suspended in the syrup (or never come into contact with the meat). The salt, sugar/syrup & nitrite become evenly distributed throughout the brine solution which moves as a single unit freely in and out the meat's cellular structure by means of osmosis/diffusion.
This begs the question: Does some of the nitrite remain outside the meat in the brine? Yes, of course it does!
THEREFORE it becomes a matter of the concentration of nitrite present in the brine that's formed in relation to the meat. Since we are not adding additional water or injecting, we are relying solely on the green weight of the meat and assuming equilibrium for our calculations.
As long as proper concentrations of nitrite are used, the majority of what's picked up by the meat bonds to the iron molecules in the myoglobin and oxidizes (that's why the meat stays pink). If the concentrations are too high, then extra un-oxidized nitrite remains in the meat once equilibrium has been reached. It's this extra nitrite that becomes the concern.
Again, I reference the Bacon calculator link I posted above. Please check it out for yourselves, and be sure to select the U.S. standards
Does this mean you're going to poison yourself if you use 2 teaspoons of Cure #1 per 5 lbs of meat? Probably not, BUT why use extra when it's not needed? It's better IMHO to use what the USDA recommends and stay safe!
That's my 2¢ worth and I'm sticking to it! ;)
Now on to Smokerjunky's question:
Cliff my question now changes a bit - by tonight I will be three full days into the curing process. Is it still safe at this point to rinse the belly with cold water and remix all ingredients cutting the pink salt in half and continuing the process? I would imagine that the curing that has already occured over the three days will remain in the meat (ie -pink salt) and that I would remain on the path to 7 full days of curing - so four days left even if I rinse and re-mix/re-bag. I will lose the brine that has currently been produced by the three days of curing if I rinse and re-bag in new bags.
I tend to agree with Larry (KYNOLA) much of it has probably already worked it's way into the meat. Like Chris (TenPoint5) mentioned this is NOT a dry cure. This is a dry-rub cure which then creates its own brine, so it's a wet cure process.
At this point I think I'd wait until tomorrow then simply pour off the brine, which will prevent any further intake of Nitrite and allow what's in the bacon to equalize during the remainder of a 7-day curing process. You may want to re-apply more Maple syrup when you do this.
Again my point is NOT to argue or offend anyone. You guys are my brothers and sisters on the Web. I just like to understand this stuff and want us all to be as safe as possible!
Cliff
Thanks again Cliff - to clarify I did not use any maple syrup in my mix. The exact recipe I used is as follows:
1/3 C Kosher Salt
1/3 C Granulated Sugar
2 tsp Pink Curing Salt
That was for 5 lbs. The belly I am curing was 10.37 lbs so I doubled the recipe. The recipe I had did not call for Maple syrup (which I would probably not have used anway becuase I did not want any addtional sweetness to the bacon)
Is it your thought that I should drain off the liquid tonight (full four days into the cure) without rinsing and return it to the ziploc bags to finish the last three days of the cure before smoking?
Thanks
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Is it your thought that I should drain off the liquid tonight (full four days into the cure) without rinsing and return it to the ziploc bags to finish the last three days of the cure before smoking?
Thanks
Yes, that's what I'd do. That way you prevent any further uptake of nitrite, and by now there should be plenty of salt/sugar/nitrite in it that it should level out nicely.
Again, fry up a test slice to check for saltiness etc, before you smoke it to see if it needs a soak. My guess is it won't need much of a soak, if any at all, since you're removing it after four days. A test slice will tell you for sure.
Most of all be sure to get some pics to share with us! We're all a bunch of smoker junkies here! :D
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Dang, I will just buy my bacon at the store. It may not be as much fun as making my own, but it tastes good.
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Dang, I will just buy my bacon at the store. It may not be as much fun as making my own, but it tastes good.
Store bought bacon does not hold a candle to what you can make a home. And, I thought that was hyperbole, until I did it myself. Now, I think of store bought bacon just like I think of pre-packaged pulled pork from the grocery store. Compared to the real deal....it pales in comparison.
And, it need not be difficult, or dangerous, or stressful. ;D But you will have fun making your own!
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Store bought bacon does not hold a candle to what you can make a home. And, I thought that was hyperbole, until I did it myself. Now, I think of store bought bacon just like I think of pre-packaged pulled pork from the grocery store. Compared to the real deal....it pales in comparison.
And, it need not be difficult, or dangerous, or stressful. ;D But you will have fun making your own!
I agree 100%! :)
Bacon making really isn't complicated, and once you try it you are hooked!
Now... I am OUT of bacon again :'(, so I need to go make some!
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OK the process is complete - here is the result and update: based on great feedback from everyone (thank you - I really appreciate it!!) I removed the belly from the curing brine bags at the end of day 5 and let it cure for two more days with the liquid drained off.
At the end of day 7 I rinsed the bellies with cold water, patted dry, and returned to refrigerator on racks/cookie sheets for another 12 hours for the pellicle to form.
Monday night I put them on the pellet smoker at 175 degrees - it took about 4 hours for the IT to come up to 150. I let them cool to room temp (about 3 hours) and then vacuum sealed them and returned to the refrigerator for another 12 hours.
Last night I sliced them up as good as I could without a meat slicer (crazy sharp knife while they were cold from refrigeration worked OK but if I do more I would prefer to invest in a meat slicer - would also be good for my jerky ;))
The result = Great flavor but just a bit more salty than I would prefer. Next batch will get soaked in cold water for an hour or two before smoking to remove some of that excess salt. Overall I am really pleased with the results - the flavor is incredible - I will definately be doing more bacon!
I cooked a couple pieces last night (OK I had three LOL) and vacuum sealed the rest and put them in the freezer.
Thanks again EVERYONE for the feedback and assistance through the process - much appreciated.
Out of the smoke
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4161_zps5gwnpyhu.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4161_zps5gwnpyhu.jpg.html)
Sliced
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4164_zpszrnfvhji.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4164_zpszrnfvhji.jpg.html)
Packaged to freeze
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4168_zpshfk5kvwe.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4168_zpshfk5kvwe.jpg.html)
Cooked and ready to enjoy
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/swjones64/IMG_4167_zps7mr2qlrg.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/swjones64/media/IMG_4167_zps7mr2qlrg.jpg.html)
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Looks awesome. Great job
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Looks really good from here
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Looks awesome!
The Cider Mill Bacon recipe that is popular here is my favorite because it is not too salty and has fantastic flavor.
Next batch give it a try. It is a wet brine cure and easy to do.
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Ummmmmm.... bacon!
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Looks awesome!
The Cider Mill Bacon recipe that is popular here is my favorite because it is not too salty and has fantastic flavor.
Next batch give it a try. It is a wet brine cure and easy to do.
Hey that sounds good Tee - thanks for the suggestion - That is what I really like about the Savor Spices - I like to stay away from excess sodium :D
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I'd eat a pound or three of that bacon!!!!!