RANT: I AM NO LONGER AN AMAZON CUSTOMER....

[teesquare]

I am working hard to be civilized, and coherent thru the anger.... 

I chose to NOT renew my Amazon Prime acct. this year. It was not that I saw no savings - I did.... It was making the only choice that we can make as consumers. TO "vote" with my wallet.  It ticked me off that their business continues to get larger - and yet they can't show enough profit ( if any) - so they choose to penalize ME and YOU for an apparently un-sustainable business model.They raised the Amazon PRIME acct. cost to $100. Greed combined with a lack of understanding the customer. I figured I would not renew for a few months, and see if I changed my mind. There are plenty of other places to buy the same items, and some at or close to the same prices.

So, I continued to get notices from Amazon that needed to renew my Prime acct. and that the card on file needed to be up-dated. I INTENIONALLY ignored these, and did NOT up-date my acct information. But, because I had used a second acct occasionally - which was a small bank acct. and debit card for "slush funds" and small purchases....
And today I went to the Post Office to buy a money order for some gun parts I am going to order. ( Seller's preferred method of payment is a US Postal Money Order ). Card declined...TWICE...
I leave - embarrassed as @#$%....And get to my car - and call my bank. The teller that I know there looked up acct. details - and told me that AMAZON HAD TAKEN $99.95 OUT OF MY ACCT.!!!!! Because I KNEW how much is in that acct. ALL of the imd - I seemed impossible for it to be darn near $300 over-drawn..... BUT - that CAN happen when AMAZON zaps your acct., then the charge for over-draft hit, and you use that same acct. for a few $5 and $10 purchase - because you have to add $30 overdraft charge for EACH of those!!!
It took a couple of minutes of deep breathing and meditation to get my head back to a place where I could be civil to anyone else I might encounter.

But when I got home - and located a phone number for Amazon.......( I really do not like to lambaste Customer Service folks...it is not their fault ) I begged to a person in management until I finally got someone..... And  I got some attitude....( insert more deep breathing and re-focusing here...) And then we discussed his parentage, genetics and whether his father ever did the right thing by his momma - AND *IF* I needed to come to California and get him to bend over so I could extract MY money from his @$$. I got put on hold.....
He came back, apologized - looked at my Prime acct - and saw what Amazon had done. Asked if they could refund the $99.95...? I told him !@#$% NOOOO!!!! I will not accept a PARTIAL PAYMENT.  Make the choice: Pay me what you cost me via your greed - or I will construct websites (yes - PLURAL) about this experience - and contact EVERYONE I KNOW and re-tell the story. I was asked to hold again.
After a few minutes he came back and told me that he had requested the other $180 to be returned to my acct.....

We will see, but suffice it to say I AM DONE WITH AMAZON.  Such a relationship must have an element of trust with my acct. numbers. Well...they pretty much screwed the pooch on that count - huh?

O.K....headed for the "medicinal liquids" cabinet, and the ice dispenser now.....

[TMB]

Reason I DON'T buy from such places.  I try to buy from folks I know and trust

[smokendevo]

I feel for you Tee, good thing you don't live in Canada and order from Amazon, every once in a while the border nazi will take their percentage for processing the package.

[Hub]

Amazon has an amazing business model and has had tremendous success in its relatively short life.  They were recently cited as one of the top ten most liked businesses by their customers.  I'm not defending them, though.  You were wronged by a process they controlled and then you got a jerk supervisor in the call center.  Neither event should have happened.  If it were MY business that had done this to you I'd be doubling your refund AND supplying the booze 

Here's a little warning for everyone who reads this from somebody who has been to hell and back with this kind of account charging -- I was a personal banker, a bank operations officer, and a bank management consultant for a long, long time.  I've totally lost count of how many (hundreds, at least) times I had to get on the horn to some company that had required debit authorization for some charge in lieu of billing or customer-authorized credit.  This puts them, not you, in the "driver's seat" for your funds.  Very, very often it wasn't the fact of the charge but an unexpected/incorrect amount, timing, or totally ignoring a stop order on it that was the problem.  Very, very often it wasn't the company's policy or procedure, but was, instead, the action of some employee who didn't understand the situation or wasn't trained to handle it properly.  Over the years I piled up a lot of apology letters from a lot of insurance companies, cosmetics vendors, direct marketers, and others who "got religion" once somebody got through to the right person to get it fixed (not always easy and never quick).

Moral:  Unless the benefit is substantial (and Amazon Prime can be) don't give anyone direct debit access to your accounts even if they are just small ones like the one you maintained for this purpose (a good idea since Reg Z does not cover non-credit purchases although most banks go ahead and protect their customers anyway).  Its a jungle out there, particularly in e-commerce where it can be hard to find a real human being to grab the bull by the tail and face the situation 

Chevy Chase, in one of the Fletch movies had a great line, "I recommend drinking heavily".  Some days . . . some days!

Hub

[teesquare]

Thanks fellas.

For the record, I had previously been an Amazon Prime customer for a few years...And had always praised them as my "go to" resource for EVERYTHING.

But I cannot imagine that for me- this "relationship" with Amazon is repairable. It was a breech of trust. I see it no differently than if a waiter pushes the desserts - and you decline SEVERAL TIMES....then you pay the check, put the receipt in your pocket - and only a couple of days later discover - he charged you for dessert anyway!!!
Sure, I should have looked at the receipt...shame on me for TRUSTING. But that DOES NOT excuse, liberate or otherwise give permission to commit monetary assault on my wallet.

[muebe]

Tee I can understand why you are upset but in their defense you did not contact them back about not renewing and they did contact you about a problem with your renewal of prime.

Lets change it up a bit. Suppose you did want prime but never contacted them and they closed your prime account. Then you went to buy something with one click and found you paid more for something because your prime account was closed. Would you be upset they closed it? And you might argue that you had another valid card on the account to charge with and why did they not use that one instead.

I am confident that Amazon will correct it for you. I have had issues before and Amazon made every effort to correct them.

[teesquare]

I think of it as SIMPLE....

When you DO NOT want something  that someone wants to sell you - YOU DECLINE. I DECLINED 3 times. I DID NOT renew my card, nor did I give them one to replace the card I used for my Prime membership.
Had I wanted to re-new...I would have done so. If I had allowed my prime acct. to lapse, no problem - I can re-new it INSTANTLY,  - again, no problem. I disagree that the current mentality among subscription services of ANY kind is that they AUTO renew. I can be responsible for me. It is MY cookie jar. WHY should I have to keep an eye on it - to prevent someone else from taking more cookies than I told them they could have? In a normal world THAT IS THEFT.

THEY took it upon themselves - to charge ANOTHER card I had used as A BACKUP.

Here is an e-mail from them. I think it sums up.. an "admission" of guilt/error.

This is Rhem, your Amazon customer service. Thank you for giving me the chance to help you with your concern.

I've requested a refund of $180.00 to your card for the overdraft fees. This refund should go through within 5 business days and will appear as a credit on your next debit card billing statement. 

I've canceled your Prime membership and requested an additional refund of $99.00 for the membership fee. The refund should be processed within the next 2-3 business days and will appear as a credit on your next debit card billing statement.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,


So - based on THAT.....they will at least "clean the slate". Fine, and I appreciate that.  But I cannot say that I appreciate being drug thru the embarrassment - nor do I consider it any excuse for the presumptuous use of ANOTHER card OTHER than what I had on file for my Amazon Prime acct.  THAT IS WRONG... Obviously, they too - agree. Or - they would not offer to re-pay the monies that they cost me.

I can live very well without Amazon, and - they will never notice one individual's absence. There will not be a condition under which i will give them another credit OR debit card. Period.

[spuds]

Thats darn good they are paying the late fee's.Most companies would tell you to stuff it.At least they listened,had a mechanism to  get to them,AND responded.

Some are just plain crooks like That Shopping Gourmet outfit that stiffed me for a heat infrared gun,has billed my acct,and is prepared to do it again,with ZERO way to reach them because they ARE thieves,no ifs ands or butts.And they have every angle to stop you from stopping payments,like you are required to notify them FIRST,but no way to do so.THIEVES!

Amazon did right by you in fixing it,above and beyond IMO.At least at Amazon I can reach,cancel,and seek redress,other sites that are shady you cant.I know Amazon isnt a criminal theft front.Others I dont.

But I see all you say and why you feel as you do.They made a really stupid,inexcusable attack on your bank funds IMO.Would t me off too,big time.

[teesquare]

I think we have all been lulled to feel it's "O.K." with hidden fees ( hidden within 37 pages of double fine print - that THEY KNOW you can't justify the time to read) by CC companies, and subscription services of various kinds.

For ME the epiphany is this: If I screw up - and something expires, or cancels - fine. My fault. But it is MY money to determine the use of. I cannot fathom how - as an entire populace we allowed the banking lobby to push thru a diametric shift in the law governing annual charges/renewals.
Not too many years ago  - YOU had to renew anything which costs you money in order to keep that acct. active. Makes sense - *IF* you ascribe to the philosophy that it is YOUR money, and YOU can determine which you wish to keep, or which you wish to discontinue.

Nowadays  you have to watch EVERYTHING EVERYDAY - to insure that you are not being double billed, over-charged, auto renewed or just plain ripped-off....

I am about 1 gnat's whisker from converting to ALL CASH.....GOd, it would be glorious if we could start the economy over and re-gain control. Self-control, and control of the "robber-barons".

[smoker pete]

For any services that require yearly renewal like Netflix, XM radio, domain renewals, etc I just do not keep a credit card on file and I do not check the automatic renewal box.  When it comes times for renewal they just email me and remind me that my account(s) expire on a certain date.  I then go online and renew the service manually.  Nowadays usually with PayPal.  Keeps things more simple for me. 

[teesquare]

I hear ya Pete. But, I don't think all subscription services operate by the same principles. Some "auto renew" - and you have to write down the date on a calendar, to remember to call or e-mail and STOP the renewal.

BTW - I love PayPal. Works. Period. But..Amazon will not accept PayPal. After all- PayPal is owned by E-bay - their chief competitor I suppose.

[Pappymn]

Tee, is fired up! Bet my monthly fee to LTBBQ are going to go up

I love Amazon......they did more then any other company.....including banks......would have done

[pz]

Sounds like an awful experience.  For that very reason I take advantage of what my bank offers as a sort of single use virtual credit card.  For example, if I make a purchase of $199, I can go into online banking and create a temporary credit card number with a limit of $199 which is good at a single vendor for 2 months.

Sure, it is an extra step that takes more time and bother, but I am never surprised with "extra" charges

[Ka Honu]

I've always found Amazon to be willing to correct any errors quickly and equitably with a single phone call. It may or may not help that I have only one credit card registered with them and I don't use it for anything else so I'm not worried about having the card refused elsewhere.

Amazon will remain my "go to" source for many locally available items as long as Hawaii's inflated prices exceed the Amazon price by as much as 50% (far more than our isolation and actual shipping costs merit). I also, of course, use them for many items I can't get locally and will continue to do so.

Having said all that, I have to agree that although they can make life easier in many ways, the current financial systems in place require consumers to keep a closer eye on their exposure.

[sliding_billy]

I know a lot of people like Amazon, so there is a little bit of an apologist tone to this thread.  Personally, I have found the value of their service decreasing for a while now.  For convenience they can't be beat but their prices are not only no better than most places they are more expensive in many cases.  I think folks forget that Prime isn't free shipping.  It is basically prepaid shipping.  Once the money is gone, it feels like a great deal as you use it.  If you utilize ship to store (or other promos) with a lot of retailers, you can get free shipping pretty easily.  Even Amazon can be dealt with if you can accept a little slower shipping.  I cannot think of one thing that I have ordered from an online retailer that getting it sooner than say 5 days was anything other than a bonus.  It was never necessary.  Add to all this the increased pricing and the power play that Amazon was been waging on vendors for the past couple of years, and I will continue to pass.