RANT: I AM NO LONGER AN AMAZON CUSTOMER....

[muebe]

Tee they corrected it and did everything you asked. Paid all the fees you had. Went way above and beyond what was required to correct their mistake.

This has been my experience with Amazon every time there has been an issue.

And yes there might be a pre payment for shipping with prime but I use Amazon enough that it is worth it for me.

I used to do the best bargain shopping online and found some great deals until I found that great deal never arrived to my home, or took months to get, or double charged my credit card, or fraudulent charges, or the wrong product arrived at my home when it finally got there, etc.

When I buy something on Amazon I know what I order will arrive on time and in perfect condition. And if it doesn't they will take care of it promptly.

[teesquare]

No argument with any of you, and - you all make some valid, worthwhile points....

The bad experience I had with Amazon with simple: BREACH OF TRUST. If you re-read the detail in what happened - you will notice that Amazon USED A CARD THAT THEY WERE NOT GIVEN PERMISSION TO. It was a card that I used on Amazon a few times - and was NOT the card I had on file for my Amazon Prime renewal.

Imagine this: I dropped my wallet while filling up my car. You - know me, and see this happen. You pick up my wallet, but remove money - then return my wallet. I thank you for returning my wallet......
1. DO I then have the right to ask you why you kept my money? Then I tell you to give it back. And you comply.
2. DO you feel a moral vindication because you gave me back MY money? DO you feel I am wrong to question your motives?

You see - I am not sure that the "apologetic return" of my money ( which is all a theory BTW...has not happened yet ) was motivated by moral compunction. I think it was "Gee - I am sorry that you caught me"

 I just do not have the flexibility in my personal philosophy that allows myself to be screwed by the same person or company more than once. It may seem harsh to you, but - that is who I am. We are all individuals.

[muebe]

Tee I would agree if they did not correct the problem. A mistake was made and they did correct it. They paid all your extra fees you encountered due to their mistake. I think they went beyond what most other companies would do.

Amazon allows you the option to not save the card on file. And it may say in the fine print when they have another valid card on file they will use that to renew your prime membership. When they notified you the other card was not valid that means they were attempting to renew your membership automatically. So by you not answering their request they moved onto another card that was valid. Does not make it right but might be their policy. And this could all be an automated process by the system and not even an individual.

I am aware that my prime membership will automatically renew unless I notify them otherwise. They do send me an email letting me know in advance that it will be renewing and if I want to cancel to contact them. I think it can be changed in your account settings on the site.

So I understand why your upset my only point is that they did correct the problem.

[sliding_billy]

Tee I would agree if they did not correct the problem. A mistake was made and they did correct it. They paid all your extra fees you encountered due to their mistake. I think they went beyond what most other companies would do.

Amazon allows you the option to not save the card on file. And it may say in the fine print when they have another valid card on file they will use that to renew your prime membership. When they notified you the other card was not valid that means they were attempting to renew your membership automatically. So by you not answering their request they moved onto another card that was valid. Does not make it right but might be their policy. And this could all be an automated process by the system and not even an individual.

I am aware that my prime membership will automatically renew unless I notify them otherwise. They do send me an email letting me know in advance that it will be renewing and if I want to cancel to contact them. I think it can be changed in your account settings on the site.

So I understand why your upset my only point is that they did correct the problem.

I do not see how they fixed the problem.  They simply refunded a customer for what was ultimately a fraudulent transaction that they themselves processed.  In my opinion, what they did was credit card theft.

[Guido1964]

I don't believe that this was a mistake.  This was intentional.  Amazon searched for and found another credit card within their system but they were not authorized to use it.  They then used it and when their CRIMINAL misbehavior was caught, they offered to cover their theft by offering to pay restitution.  This is the same as any other credit card theft.  They KNOWINGLY used a credit card without legal authorization, that is illegal as heck.  If single person had done that the police would have more than likely been called and the police could be called in this instance. 

[Big Dawg]

I completely understand Tee’s anger and frustration.

Many, many, years ago (and by that I mean decades) when I first started teaching, the school system I worked for did not provide healthcare.  So my fiancée (at the time) and I had to take out individual policies and the premiums were drafted directly out of our (joint) checking account.  The next year, after we’d gotten married, we converted the policy and there was only one premium instead of two. 

Fast forward a couple of years, I went to work in a neighboring school district and they did provide health coverage.  So I called our private insurance company and cancelled the old policy.

Low and behold, the very next month they drafted another premium out of our checking account.  I called, and probably sounded a lot like Tess (I know, because I’ve heard myself sound that way).  The apologized profusely and said that they would send me a check within some number of business days.

Now, can you believe that the same thing happened again the following month!  I not called the insurance company, sounding waaaaaaay worse than Tee.  I called my bank and found that, while it’s fairly easy to stop payment on a check that you’ve written, it’s much more difficult to stop an automatic draft, since it doesn’t have a check number.  But, they said that they could put a stop on the “amount” of the draft.  So I told them to do that.  Now I was safe, right . . . . .

Wrong, the next month, after the single premium didn’t go through, they split it back up into two policies and charged for them both ! ! ! !

With my banker apologizing profusely and telling me that his hands were tied as far as what he could do, I ended up closing that checking account and opening up new one.

Now, I never give my account routing numbers to anyone.  This has cost me because some companies charge extra, or will not do business with you at all, if they cannot directly draft the funds.  I also “lose” my cards about once a year or so, just in case.

I like the "Virtual Credit Card" that pz uses but I do not think my back or credit union have that option.





BD

[teesquare]

Well....I am not calling what Amazon did was strictly fraudulent .....but will stand by this: It takes advantage of us as consumers. Advantage in a not so positive manner. It takes advantage of our lack of time to justify reading pages of fine print. It takes advantage of how busy we all are just track in our expenses that we know about and have manage. It takes advantage the same way that if you do not request "detailed billing" with your other service providers such as land line or cell phone, cable or satellite....ad infinitum.

Did Amazon "do the right thing"? It depends on how you define that. ( again....holding my breath that they do as promised )
If they refund all of the charges one can certainly agree that the legal bases are covered without question. And while the apology was nice.....I do not feel a restoration of trust. There was not an explanation offered or any mention of a "mistake". It is more or less a ....we got you because of fine print. The "right thing"  never entered the conversation from Amazon's perspective.

[TMB]

After reading all the comments and seeing what is being done by large and small companies with auto draft makes me wonder why anyone would do business this way. I understand it's faster and things get done but if you add up the time spent not to mention the aggravation I'm not sure it's worth it.

Kimmie and I keep one card active just for internet use and that one as a VERY small cap on it + she keeps an eye on the accounts we do have.  Call me old fashion call me whatever you like,   one thing is for sure These auto drafts will not be allowed in my accounts as long as I can hold them off. 

 One day I will have to give in, but I'll go fighting every day not to.

OK sitting down now

[Pam Gould]

I went into Amazon and deleted my credit cards..2 of them were expired and couldn't be used till I updated. They have a section under my account where you can do this very easily and I will be happy to add my info and not keep it stored on their server. For most of that stuff I use PayPal anyways. I change my password frequently and haven't had a problem since 1999. Hope this helps someone.  Pam .☆´¯`•.¸¸. ི♥ྀ.

[teesquare]

For most of that stuff I use PayPal anyways


Except for Amazon - I use PayPal as well...Amazon will not accept PayPal, at least - I have never been able to use PayPal on Amazon....

[muebe]

Tee I would agree if they did not correct the problem. A mistake was made and they did correct it. They paid all your extra fees you encountered due to their mistake. I think they went beyond what most other companies would do.

Amazon allows you the option to not save the card on file. And it may say in the fine print when they have another valid card on file they will use that to renew your prime membership. When they notified you the other card was not valid that means they were attempting to renew your membership automatically. So by you not answering their request they moved onto another card that was valid. Does not make it right but might be their policy. And this could all be an automated process by the system and not even an individual.

I am aware that my prime membership will automatically renew unless I notify them otherwise. They do send me an email letting me know in advance that it will be renewing and if I want to cancel to contact them. I think it can be changed in your account settings on the site.

So I understand why your upset my only point is that they did correct the problem.

I do not see how they fixed the problem.  They simply refunded a customer for what was ultimately a fraudulent transaction that they themselves processed.  In my opinion, what they did was credit card theft.

Well what else could they do to fix the problem in your eyes then?

[spuds]

I wouldnt call that fraud,I would call it a broken system.I have an amazon card ive never used,this could have happened to me just like Tee.Though it wouldnt have done the overdrafts ,that part is just frustration beyond belief.

I have one auto pay,Dish TV,only way I could get it.

As long as they make good,I would give them Kudo's for fixing it.

As stated many times,most companies tell you to stuff it.

I had Well Fargo deposit my pay check to a guy at BofA,and credit me his check,half what mine was AND IT BOUNCED.They took over 3 weeks to fix it,refused to talk to me (Im just a starving student without funds to even EAT!!!),I could go on and on.So neither of those gets my business.

Also amazon treats employees bad....know a guy desperate for a job,got hired there for Christmas rush,turned into a full time gig.He walks something like 10-20 miles a day,i forget,but a lot.

He is thankful to be working so its all relative I guess.

I think its an honest mistake.And they fixed it,thats really amazing.

I will bet money it gets credited too,my only prob with them was a gift I sent,it went to wrong state,same name town,they offered to overnight it free to get there by Christmas,thats pretty danged good.I didnt have to play phone tag hell with em either.

[teesquare]

Since I started this...

Spuds they have promised to return my money...will really know in a few days. I do expect them to do so - as they did say they would, and I have no reason to doubt.

muebe: - not responding for Sliding Billy...but, from my perspective I think some terms and definitions are in order - and I should have been more clear about what I feel the "problem" is and what the "fix" or solution may be.

The problem was NOT the money itself. The problem was a breach of trust that I felt when Amazon chose to use a secondary card that was never used for renewal in the past. Had I known they would do such - I would have deleted my acct. prior to this. They did so, and I did not receive notification of their intent to do so before or after they took the money.

Again, when we do business on the internet, there are things that WE as consumers must pay attention to. But I believe that Amazon - and all other on-line merchants need to make the process simpler, and STOP the auto renewal process - and/or communicate better to customers how to prevent it, and some opt outs that are more obvious.

I am not whining when I say to you that I am very busy. We all are. And - in that context - wouldn't you ( If you were Jeff Bezos and the Board of Directors) want to modify the system to make it nearly impossible for Amazon to be perceived as Draconian in their "money grab" methodology - i.e. my experience with them?

There is no "venom " in my post-crash analysis of what happened as of now. Just real wonderment at HOW the policy that they operate under could possibly be in the long term best interest of Amazon itself. 

When we submit knowingly or not to policies like "auto-renew" I feel we are bit by bit giving up our rights to self-determination, and self-governance. This is just one small example.

[spuds]

Since I started this...


When we submit knowingly or not to policies like "auto-renew" I feel we are bit by bit giving up our rights to self-determination, and self-governance. This is just one small example.

Wont be long before we are a cashless society,a couple places already are now,and your worst fears on that will be our new reality,now THATS scary!!!!

[teesquare]

I had this discussion with someone today .
 Ebay owns PayPal..and PayPal  a bank....They can even issue you a PayPal credit card underwritten by Visa. Try to buy something on E-bay , and NOT use a PayPal acct. It is rare that you can do that....