Let's take some time to remember those killed and injured in Orlando.

[Savannahsmoker]

It is not a good day for America...............

Not to get political but I feel it has not been a day for America for more than seven years and that is why we are where we are.
"Not a good day for America".

[teesquare]

The grievous nature of this issue is one that has caused me to relax our LTTBQ philosophy  on not engaging in political, or religious conversations because they are ...polarizing, and result in decisive talk - whether intended or not. We do have moocher in common when we are focused on outdoor cooking or cooking in general.

But - my heart has had a severe conversation with my head.....and in light of the need for many of us to vent a little of our frustration with the senseless and unfathomable nature of events like this....and as long as the conversations stays no more heated than we have currently - this thread will stay open. If another member needs to make a comment to lighten their load - fine. Just, - let's not dwell and "amp up" our frustrations too much folks.

For me - times like this a reminder of many things. Some good, and some not. So I try to focus on what is important for me:

1. God
2. Family
3. Country
4. And, then - my feelings.
It is my way of prioritizing, and just my tool for trying to make order when obviously chaos has stolen any sanity from the day.

I AM FOURTH, is my montra. Kind of a "shorthand" for the above brief - but all important list.

[GusRobin]

As soon as we heard the news, i told my wife that by the end of the day the left will call it an example of the need for gun control and the right will blame it on Obama's lack of facing the truth about Islamic terrorism.

The sad part is that these positions will further polarize people and prevent talking about a viable solution.

To me the solution is not gun control laws because there are enough of them. Enforce the laws we have.
Whether it is tax free cigarettes, moonshine, illegal gaming, booze, drugs, guns, or any other thing you try to eliminate someone will provide it.

We need to stop being politically correct to the point of idiocy. It does not mean we become racist, nor ridicule others beliefs, nor by actions help realize the fears people have. But things like securing the border, profiling, are not necessarily bad if not abused. In fact some type of profiling has been used in good police work for centuries. Just because some abuse it, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Deal with those that abuse.

The main solution is to recognize that we are at war. We have been at war with one type of middle east terrorism since at least the late 60's early 70's. We just didn't show up until 9/11. Sure we would bomb a camp in the desert after they took down a plane or killed 200 marines, but we didn't want to take action where needed because we didn't want to upset our "friends" with the oil.

Well we are now in a position where we are energy independent, or at least we should be if certain politicians would quit trying to shut down any non solar, coal or nuclear energy.  We missed a great opportunity these last 12 years to do what we had to in taking care of the situation. Doesn't mean we should have gone all John Wayne (rest his soul) but we should have played our cards a lot tougher.
There is still time but the American people need to stand up and be counted and let our officials know we want to play a different game.
I will now step down from my soap box and go talk about the new cook aire grill I was coerced into buying.

[teesquare]

Gus - I admire your restraint, because I know how strongly you feel. Thanks for your comments.

[muebe]

I don't think this tragic situation needs to be political. It is just straight out terrorism. I don't care if they label it domestic terrorism or not that is what it is. No matter if you are democrat, republican, libertarian, or whatever this is going to affect us all. Pro gun or anti gun they don't care. They just want to kill Americans and make us afraid.

One thing I can say about our country. With all the bickering and fighting when the sh!t hits the fan we really do come together. I just hope we get on the offensive before it is too late.

Is it going to take a school full of children to realize what we are really dealing with?

I know that this is a BBQ and cooking forum but I also know that every member here knows what we are truly up against. I am sure there will be more attacks. The question is when we will really take them seriously? We should already be on the offensive IMHO.

I will step off my soap box.

I think Gus summed it up perfectly...

[teesquare]

Well put muebe.

Perhaps many members here do not know it, but we really do have an international portion of our membership. Which is another reason that I want the rest of the world to be able to see us as open and optimistic, but not as weaklings. Not apologetic for being who we are. Not that this country is always right....but I think that we can look t the history of the 20th and thus far the 21st century - and America has been the first to go and help others, at the cost of many American lives.

It would be nice to see some of our "allies" stand up for us - and take active roles in a more meaningful manner.

[stalag]

Sorry about the venting above, but it is hard for me not to just sit by and not say anything when I see people willing to delude themselves for an ideal that is not real to begin with.  I will though try to keep things civil.  However from the media as a whole, I have seen to much lie by omission and redefinition by trying to obfuscate the truth by spreading lies within the truth.  Pure and simple, what happened in Orlando was a travesty, and what happened was a terror attack by a radicalized militant Islamist.  His radicalization did not happen overnight, but if we continue to ignore these philosophies that seek destruction of our way of life, our children and grandchildren risk having nothing but subjugation and coercion.  This is what scares me. 

[sparky]

Prayers to the families.

[Smokin Don]

As soon as we heard the news, i told my wife that by the end of the day the left will call it an example of the need for gun control and the right will blame it on Obama's lack of facing the truth about Islamic terrorism.

The sad part is that these positions will further polarize people and prevent talking about a viable solution.

To me the solution is not gun control laws because there are enough of them. Enforce the laws we have.
Whether it is tax free cigarettes, moonshine, illegal gaming, booze, drugs, guns, or any other thing you try to eliminate someone will provide it.

We need to stop being politically correct to the point of idiocy. It does not mean we become racist, nor ridicule others beliefs, nor by actions help realize the fears people have. But things like securing the border, profiling, are not necessarily bad if not abused. In fact some type of profiling has been used in good police work for centuries. Just because some abuse it, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Deal with those that abuse.

The main solution is to recognize that we are at war. We have been at war with one type of middle east terrorism since at least the late 60's early 70's. We just didn't show up until 9/11. Sure we would bomb a camp in the desert after they took down a plane or killed 200 marines, but we didn't want to take action where needed because we didn't want to upset our "friends" with the oil.

Well we are now in a position where we are energy independent, or at least we should be if certain politicians would quit trying to shut down any non solar, coal or nuclear energy.  We missed a great opportunity these last 12 years to do what we had to in taking care of the situation. Doesn't mean we should have gone all John Wayne (rest his soul) but we should have played our cards a lot tougher.
There is still time but the American people need to stand up and be counted and let our officials know we want to play a different game.
I will now step down from my soap box and go talk about the new cook aire grill I was coerced into buying.

I agree with all Gus and very well put forward! Don

[rhltechie]

when i saw this post go up yesterday, i was hoping I would not have to leave this group I have come to like a lot.  The people that lost their lives could have easily been myself or my friends.  The hate that has been spewed on television stating these people deserved to die is incredibly painful. despite anything else, they were people. they were americans.  it seems to have settled into a conversation about policy and guns, and i am thankful to have not read anything hate related on this board.

[HighOnSmoke]

when i saw this post go up yesterday, i was hoping I would not have to leave this group I have come to like a lot.  The people that lost their lives could have easily been myself or my friends.  The hate that has been spewed on television stating these people deserved to die is incredibly painful. despite anything else, they were people. they were americans.  it seems to have settled into a conversation about policy and guns, and i am thankful to have not read anything hate related on this board.

Well said! That is what separates this group from all the other ones out there.  We are all adults that can be very angry over this situation as well as other ones. Yes, you will find anger and frustration here, but you won't find the "hate" comments that other ones are spewing. That is what makes this the best forum on the internet.  I definitely agree that there is a limit to being politically correct and I do believe we have surpassed that!

[stalag]

when i saw this post go up yesterday, i was hoping I would not have to leave this group I have come to like a lot.  The people that lost their lives could have easily been myself or my friends.  The hate that has been spewed on television stating these people deserved to die is incredibly painful. despite anything else, they were people. they were americans.  it seems to have settled into a conversation about policy and guns, and i am thankful to have not read anything hate related on this board.

Well said! That is what separates this group from all the other ones out there.  We are all adults that can be very angry over this situation as well as other ones. Yes, you will find anger and frustration here, but you won't find the "hate" comments that other ones are spewing. That is what makes this the best forum on the internet.  I definitely agree that there is a limit to being politically correct and I do believe we have surpassed that!

Excellent post.  However the idiocy of idealism coupled with the lunacy of political correctness will get us all killed if we continue.  Feeling good will not mean we have security.  There are people out there that just refuse to fit into the slots imposed by idealism and political correctness that have evil intent on their minds.

[Pappymn]

Well said muebe and Gus. If the leader of the country won't say it by name, we are doomed

[teesquare]

when i saw this post go up yesterday, i was hoping I would not have to leave this group I have come to like a lot.  The people that lost their lives could have easily been myself or my friends.  The hate that has been spewed on television stating these people deserved to die is incredibly painful. despite anything else, they were people. they were americans.  it seems to have settled into a conversation about policy and guns, and i am thankful to have not read anything hate related on this board.

You can trust that we are not small minded here. And - it is not our right  - nor is it "right" for us to judge others. It is hard enough for me to do the things that I believe in.

[Scallywag]

Such a tragedy, this could easily happen in any country I'm afraid. Every country in the free world needs to step up, drop the PC crap and address this issue as a top priority.