Let's Talk BBQ
FORUM SPONSORS => Pit Barrel Cooker Co. => Topic started by: boyer513 on August 20, 2015, 08:31:35 AM
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Seems like everything I cook takes a lot longer than it's suppose to.
Do you wait until all to coals are nice and red before cooking ? I have usually waited 20 minutes before doing so. I'm at about 700 feet and have the vent 1/4 open.
Yesterday I did a 5 pound chicken cut in half and cook time was around 3 hours.
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It sounds normal to me, but others will chime in with advice, too. Despite all of the lighting techniques found here, the factory only recommends what's in their instructions.
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Are you using a full basket of charcoal? Do you have the rebar in place, or removed? Are you using the grill grate or hanging from the rebar?
I usually wait for the coals to be white with ash before putting any food on the grill. This is pretty much when it is the hottest.
Art
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Full basket with re-bar in place and hanging the meat
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I would give Noah and Amber a call. They are there for you after the sale and want you to enjoy your PBC :)
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I think if the PBC is running the right temp the cook should be about half that time. I use charcoal lighter fluid and have never had a problem. I did have a problem stating out by using a charcoal chimney. It wouldn't hurt to check the temp of the PBC until you get comfortable with cooking on the PBC. If you are still having problems ..call Noah or Amber...they are good people and be glad to help.
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This is not meant to come across as rude but it is definitely user error somewhere in your process.
More than likely you are not waiting long enough on the charcoal. Do the lighter fluid method and apply lighter fluid very liberally. Light immediately after you have put it on the charcoal. 20 minutes really should be enough time and most of the coals should be white. Your basket of charcoal should be completely full to the top too.
Your 5lb chicken should have taken 1/2 the amount of time (generally speaking) you are stating. Try using the grate, no rebars in, lid closed, and slightly open the vent to 1/3 of the way open.
Try again and take pictures along the way. Take a picture of the basket of charcoal, what the charcoal looks like after 20 minutes, what the vent looks like, this will help the posters on here identify any issues they are seeing in your cook.
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Seems like everything I cook takes a lot longer than it's suppose to.
Do you wait until all to coals are nice and red before cooking ? I have usually waited 20 minutes before doing so. I'm at about 700 feet and have the vent 1/4 open.
Yesterday I did a 5 pound chicken cut in half and cook time was around 3 hours.
Are you using the chimney method to light the coals? Basket completely filled?
I wait until the coal bed is white hot and ashes over before adding chicken. I usually only use one rebar in place too. That raises the temp about 50F in my experience.
When cooking chicken it is important to have an established bed if coals. There is a lot of moisture that will drip down onto the coal bed. This will cool the bed some so if the coal bed is weak that will really lower temps.
Whole chickens usually run me about 90 minutes max.
I only use the lighter fluid method on my PBC.
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No problem it for sure is user error.
This is what I got from Amber
Thank you for the email. It sounds like you are waiting too long on the coals as we recommend 12-15 minutes for any elevation under 2000 ft. Going 20 minutes will cause low temps and extended cook times. Feel free to call.
Thanks for all the input I will try again this weekend.
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Waiting longer should cause high temp, not low temp.
Are you waiting with the lid on or off?
Here's what I do
1. Light a full Compact chimney
2. Halfway up red hot, dump in basket.
3. Lid off, wait till basket is red hot, about 15-20 minutes.
4. Lid on, wait 10 minutes before hanging food. (Stabilize cooking temp before hanging food)
Chicken Initial temp should be around 400 degrees before hanging a bird.
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Waiting with lid off and re-bar out
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When I spoke with Amber, she explained how waiting too long (letting the coals get too ashed over) causes them to be hotter, initially, but then cool off much quicker as a result because they're burning out. In other words, she said I was burning up my fuel during the extended wait period before hanging meat.
I know some of you will disagree, but that's what I was told.
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I ALWAYS pay attention to what Amber says - sometimes Noah... ;) ;D ;D
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I usually only use one rebar in place too. That raises the temp about 50F in my experience.
Muebe, Why does it run hotter with one rebar removed? Is it that the holes allow more airflow?
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I usually only use one rebar in place too. That raises the temp about 50F in my experience.
Muebe, Why does it run hotter with one rebar removed? Is it that the holes allow more airflow?
Yes. The air shutter on the bottom does very little. Adding air openings at the top is what really makes a difference.
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I usually only use one rebar in place too. That raises the temp about 50F in my experience.
Muebe, Why does it run hotter with one rebar removed? Is it that the holes allow more airflow?
Yes. The air shutter on the bottom does very little. Adding air openings at the top is what really makes a difference.
Taking the rebar out or cracking the lid open creates a draft that in turn pulls air/oxygen for the coals to to use i.e. burn hotter.
Opening the bottom vent alone doesn't next to nothing.
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To Boyer513, I'd suggest you experiment and find a sweet spot that works for you. Become one with your PBC, it might take a tries but it will pay off.
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Lets all keep in mind that briquettes have a heat curve. They can get to 900 degrees but this is early on and then it is slowly downhill from there...............
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Don't feel alone. I got my PBC about a month ago and am going through the same issues as you. 3 cooks exactly by the videos with under cooked meat. Also got the 12 minute chimney light instructions and immediately hang meat. It doesn't work like that in real life. Look at how others do it, most seem to wait for hot colas with the top off before loading apparently.
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Seems like everything I cook takes a lot longer than it's suppose to.
Do you wait until all to coals are nice and red before cooking ? I have usually waited 20 minutes before doing so. I'm at about 700 feet and have the vent 1/4 open.
Yesterday I did a 5 pound chicken cut in half and cook time was around 3 hours.
Are you using the chimney method to light the coals? Basket completely filled?
I wait until the coal bed is white hot and ashes over before adding chicken. I usually only use one rebar in place too. That raises the temp about 50F in my experience.
When cooking chicken it is important to have an established bed if coals. There is a lot of moisture that will drip down onto the coal bed. This will cool the bed some so if the coal bed is weak that will really lower temps.
Whole chickens usually run me about 90 minutes max.
I only use the lighter fluid method on my PBC.
I do like Mike on the coals only with a chimney,basket full with ashes just forming,both rebars in.PBC's times did NOT work for me,Im at 5000 feet for that matter,but their times and mine,not close.As Bigg says,you must become one with YOUR machine,and environment.Practice will get the right setup for you.
Leaving a rebar out will REALLY up those temps,be careful on that for that reason,I have in the past just barely propped open lid,since I went with coals fully lit,light ash,no more issues.
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I am going throw something into the discussion that we may have lost sight of....we cook to temperature - not time. That does not mean that you can, and should continue to "tune" your methods to save some time. You don't have as much fun when you feel time pressured as well. Plan ahead. It is easier to keep something warm than it is to rush in order to "meet a deadline".
But - regardless of the amount of time involved in your cook - PLEASE check the temperature at the hip/thigh joint, and deep in the thickest part of the breast. You need to know that the chicken is at 165F minimum for food safety reasons. not too much more as no one wants it dry. I have gone to 180 in the breast using the PBC - and the chicken was juicy and tender as you can imagine.
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I have always over-cooked my chicken for those reasons Tim. The PBC is one of the few cookers that lets you overcook your chicken and still have juicy results..... 8)
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If coals aren't remaining hot for several hours, then something isn't right and changes must be made.
If they are remaining hot, though, we can't all expect the same results under different conditions (elevation, outdoor temp, humidity, wind, quantity of meat, meat temp at start of cook, volume of juices dripping on coals, etc.). There are just too many variables.
Cooking to temp is by far the best approach.
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For sure I was cooking to temp but knew I had issues when my chicken was at 3 hours to get to the correct temp.
Thanks everyone for the insight and tips.
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Same here, my "under cooked" meats are tested via Maverick 732 and a Thermopen. I jumped in here to say essentially "your mileage may vary" on the PBC timing.
I'm at sea level, full basket KBB, chimney lighting per instructions, but not getting the results expected. My chicken takes 2.5 hours with my technique. I want to reduce the time, but always cook to temp.
Thanks y'all! Great forum here!
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just my 2 cents but ive noticed many of the folk who have posted in the past in regards to potential cook time problems have used the chimney lighting method. im not saying its a bad way to go but, imho, the lighter fluid method is far superior and somewhat quicker. i follow bigg's advice on chicken and have never had a bad chicken cook. chicken drums, wings, quarters, all seem to take approx 30 min to reach about 168 or so and my temps in barrel are about 450's using lump and some kb blue
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I was wondering about starting methods too and its initial effects on getting the coals/barrel going. I think I'll get some starter fluid and do a couple tests just too see...
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From what I've read you will get a hotter cook if you use lighter fluid. I use the chimney method and get a 275-280° temp which I like for most cook's. I start with 36 red hot briquettes. If I want a 260ish I start with 34 red hot briquettes. When cooking chicken I crack the lid to get a hotter temperature the last 30 minutes to crisp the skin.
Personally I wouldn't use lighter fluid but I trust the use of it because I've read enough from people who use it and get great results. I just don't like hotter temps when cooking.
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just my 2 cents but ive noticed many of the folk who have posted in the past in regards to potential cook time problems have used the chimney lighting method. im not saying its a bad way to go but, imho, the lighter fluid method is far superior and somewhat quicker. i follow bigg's advice on chicken and have never had a bad chicken cook. chicken drums, wings, quarters, all seem to take approx 30 min to reach about 168 or so and my temps in barrel are about 450's using lump and some kb blue
Quicker to light and get up to temp...yes. After all - petroleum based fluids to have a high octane rating ;D "far superior"??? - uh...no, just faster. And if you like using lighter fluid - o.k. I have never needed to use it - and have zero issues with cooking times or temps.
From what I've read you will get a hotter cook if you use lighter fluid. I use the chimney method and get a 275-280° temp which I like for most cook's. I start with 36 red hot briquettes. If I want a 260ish I start with 34 red hot briquettes. When cooking chicken I crack the lid to get a hotter temperature the last 30 minutes to crisp the skin.
Personally I wouldn't use lighter fluid but I trust the use of it because I've read enough from people who use it and get great results. I just don't like hotter temps when cooking.
Hotter? No - but, "hotter - faster". In other words - yes, you can expedite the speed at which you get all of the charcoal going. But, if given a little extra time, the non-lighter fluid started charcoal will reach the same temps. Why? Because the same amount of stored energy is contained in the charcoal whether we put lighter fluid on it or not. We add temporary therms/BTUS's when we use lighter fluid, but - that sonly going to benefit us with a "jump start". Having said that - I fill 2 large Weber chimneys, and use newspaper to start them - and within 15 minute, I dump the 'coals in the PBC.( I have never counted charcoal - I just fill 'er up.) I wait another 10 min. or so, and hang chicken. 1-1/2 to 2 hrs. later - we eat.
Are we concerned about "microwave" times - or are we going to try and enjoy the process? ;) :D I am not telling you one is right, and the other is wrong...just that in general - time should not be the priority, temperature should be. Recognizing that - if a cook takes an extra 2 hours...it can cause some stress with the spouse -huh? ???
But, anyone that comes to my house to eat, and I am cooking outdoors knows...We will eat "when it's ready" - and that we should be a little flexible on our timing/expectations. Relax...enjoy the process.. Otherwise - go out for fast food. 8) Because if you are stressing too much - you will have indigestion anyway ::) :D
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Hmmm, now you got me thinking. No stress though, you're right, it's about the journey, LOL...
Anyway I'm curious why it takes somebody an hour longer to cook a chicken using the same process and materials, without significant environmental factors. And how to adjust my technique so I understand the effects on my PBC.
So saying the lighting methods don't affect the temperature "hotness" makes me think: why not? If I light all the charcoal with fluid and the coals start simultaneously, wouldn't that be "hotter" than lighting a portion of the coals then having the others light later in the process similar to the minion method?
Thanks for all the input guys. Getting ready for a major cook this Labor Day.
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Ok so here is my two cents...
The majority of times that I see complaints about the coals not being hot enough, longer cook times, problems with temps, etc is when someone is new to the PBC and is using the chimney method to light the coals. There is a learning curve to it. Not that it won't work just as well as the lighter fluid method but to me it is not as simple to get it right.
When using the lighter fluid method I first make sure that the charcoal basket is full and level. Then while the basket is located outside of the PBC I apply a liberal coating of quality fluid like Kingsford. I take the time to make sure I give a complete coating over the coals.
I then move the basket of coals over to the bottom of the PBC right away. I do not give time to let the fluid soak in. That is a mistake. You want the fluid to burn off within a few minutes and light the coals and not soak in.
I light 4 points around the basket and then the center. Then leave the lid off and wait a full 20 minutes.
This 20 minutes is critical because the drum is being heated by the flaming coals while the fluid is burning off. You do not get this happening from using the chimney method therefore you need to leave the coals in there longer to allow the drum to warm up before placing your food in there.
Cold air wants to fall while hot air wants to rise. A cold drum will cause the hot coals to battle with the cold air. This battle will slow things down tremendously and extend cooking times by lowering temps.
Now this is my two cents and back to our regularly scheduled program. :P
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Did some chicken halves this week and it turned out fantastic, used the lighter fluid method and let the coals burn for about 15 minutes and then hung the meat.
I also went out and purchased the Maverick 733 and that thing is fantastic, easy for you tell what is going on inside the PBC.
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Ok so here is my two cents...
The majority of times that I see complaints about the coals not being hot enough, longer cook times, problems with temps, etc is when someone is new to the PBC and is using the chimney method to light the coals. There is a learning curve to it. Not that it won't work just as well as the lighter fluid method but to me it is not as simple to get it right.
When using the lighter fluid method I first make sure that the charcoal basket is full and level. Then while the basket is located outside of the PBC I apply a liberal coating of quality fluid like Kingsford. I take the time to make sure I give a complete coating over the coals.
I then move the basket of coals over to the bottom of the PBC right away. I do not give time to let the fluid soak in. That is a mistake. You want the fluid to burn off within a few minutes and light the coals and not soak in.
I light 4 points around the basket and then the center. Then leave the lid off and wait a full 20 minutes.
This 20 minutes is critical because the drum is being heated by the flaming coals while the fluid is burning off. You do not get this happening from using the chimney method therefore you need to leave the coals in there longer to allow the drum to warm up before placing your food in there.
Cold air wants to fall while hot air wants to rise. A cold drum will cause the hot coals to battle with the cold air. This battle will slow things down tremendously and extend cooking times by lowering temps.
Now this is my two cents and back to our regularly scheduled program. :P
I am with muebe. Noah went through hundreds of trials / prototypes to get this right. So, in my mind, following his instructions (at least while I am learning) just makes sense. I mean NO offense to those who try different things, but sometimes just following the instructions works. I haven't had a bad cook (other than when I made some bad decisions on rubs / spices... ??? )
I might get some more interesting results with some experimentation, but this works for me, and I really like it.
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Yesterday I had the phenomenon of a right to left burn in my coal basket in the PBC...strange because we actually no winds to speak of..........same great results though........just make sure you got a good hot coal base and get to hanging.....
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Yesterday I had the phenomenon of a right to left burn in my coal basket in the PBC...strange because we actually no winds to speak of..........same great results though........just make sure you got a good hot coal base and get to hanging.....
I think you mean left to right, depending on which side of the barrel you are on!!! I've had this happen quite a bit too. It doesn't effect my cooks whatsover.
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Yesterday I had the phenomenon of a right to left burn in my coal basket in the PBC...strange because we actually no winds to speak of..........same great results though........just make sure you got a good hot coal base and get to hanging.....
I think you mean left to right, depending on which side of the barrel you are on!!! I've had this happen quite a bit too. It doesn't effect my cooks whatsover.
:D :D
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Boyer513...my photos from Sunday's cook. Sorry no pork pictures....too dark.
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Boyer513...apologies about the disjointed post. New to site and just learning. But anyway, you aren't doing anything wrong. Remember, Noah made a video about "one" chicken. And God made all chickens different so each will take their own time to get tasty and wonderful. Just be patient and you will find this is the best cooker ever.
I've been using the Pit Barrel for about 8 months and I've learned a few things that have served me well. Let me share...First, start your fire exactly like Noah said to. I use the chimney method and it works perfectly. Second, get you cook to room temp before you put it on the grill. Nothing sucks the life out of your fire like cold meat. And thirdly, beside making sure the bottom of the pit is clean, smooth and unobstructed, place a single 1/4 inch ceramic tile under each foot of the coal basket. I'm at 693.3 and the barometric pressure has been in the low 29's all summer. With the air being this heavy it gets a little sluggish and the extra room under the coal basket seems to give it some more room to move. I've been doing this about 4 months now and I'm holding 295-310 for a good 7 hours and completely burning all the coals. Not even little chucks left over unless I cork the holes. Also never have to remove bars or crack the lid.
The disjointed photos show a prime rib after 3.5 hours, followed by 2 hours of chicken wings, and still had enough heat for a 5.5 lb pork shoulder. Sorry no photos of the pork...to dark and I was tired by then.
Anyway, just my thoughts and they seem to work awesome for me. Good luck and enjoy this terrific product.
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Papa looks like you got it tuned in....nice looking cooks. :P
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Papa looks like you got it tuned in....nice looking cooks. :P
X2 - For sure.... now get some sleep!
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This was my weekend pork loin and ribs.
Thanks for all the help, the method I used was filling basket and using lighter fluid and letting it go for about 13 minutes. Using my new maverick 733 temp was running about 315.
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/zapp2525boyer513/IMG_2513_zpspjjifeaj.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/zapp2525boyer513/IMG_2524_zpspcr5wixs.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/zapp2525boyer513/IMG_2526_zpszawsvytr.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/zapp2525boyer513/IMG_2540_zps6fkplmf6.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/zapp2525boyer513/IMG_2547_zpsedbkespc.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/zapp2525boyer513/IMG_2548_zpsbduyuxjc.jpg)
Sorry for all the pics.
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And yet everybody says that the PBC is easy. LOL
You have to spend some time with it, there's no way around it.
Practice makes perfect.
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Papabob, what's that grate you're using for the wings? Looks like something I could use.
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It's just an 18" pizza grate that I got at Gordon's for 3.99. Seemed to make sense at the time and it turned out to be pretty good. Fit right inside the PBC perfectly. Works great for shrimp too and other small stuff..