Let's Talk BBQ
FORUM SPONSORS => Pit Barrel Cooker Co. => Topic started by: Bart57266 on July 11, 2015, 11:53:45 PM
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I would like to know how to reduce the taste of grease fog/smoke, which is obviously the result of drippings hitting hot coals. I know this is a feature of the PBC, but evidently I'm doing something wrong, because the resulting flavor is just too strong.
This my cook went today:
2 racks of St. Louis pork ribs, split into 4 total pieces (on 4 hooks)
3 chicken leg quarters (on 3 hooks)
Charcoal: Full basket
Wood chips: About 6 medium/small ones placed low throughout unlit coals.
Lighting process:
- Removed 40 coals from charcoal basket
- Started them in charcoal chimney
- Poured them into charcoal basket after top coals were 75% ashed over
- Distributed them evenly over top of unlit coals
- Waited 10 minutes with lid off PBC
- Hung ribs
- Placed temp probe in one rebar hole
Time 0:45 - 261 deg
Time 1:00 - 251 deg: Hung chicken
Time 1:15 - 257 deg
Time 1:45 - 232 deg
Time 3:00 - 218 deg
Didn't like the temp drop, so I opened the bottom vent a little
Original factory setting was 1/4 open (I'm at 35 feet above sea level)
I opened it to about 3/8 (according to illustrations in PBC instructions).
Time 3:30 - 205 deg
Obviously, the new wider vent opening didn't raise inside temp
Cracked the lid 1/2" on one side with a wood chunk
Time 4:00 - 282 deg
Time 4:30 - 237 deg: Chicken was 170 deg internal, so I pulled it
Time 4:45 - 262 deg, ribs were sauced
Time 5:20 - 245 deg, ribs pulled
Before replacing lid, flame erupted in coals, possibly due to grease burning off.
So, as you can see, I had a temp drop three hours in, and had to revive it by cracking the lid. Also, the PBC was rolling smoke pretty good the final hour. I thought it was the wood chunks finally getting ignited, but in retrospect, it was likely fog/smoke from the drippings.
Chicken cooked a total of 3hrs 30min
Ribs cooked 5hrs 20min
All meat had a grease smoke flavor that was just too strong.
- What am I doing wrong, to cause that temp drop and require cracking the lid?
- Are these cook times too long, compared to what you're able to do in your PBC?
- If so, do you think this long cook time is what's causing the excessive grease fog/smoke taste, or should I add a water pan to catch drippings?
Your advice will be appreciated!
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I am stumped on this one. You could try the cooking grate in place with a smaller pan in it to cut down on the drippins falling to the coals..............
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Bart, I do not have a PBC so no expert help here but I used gas fired water smokers for about 20 years, they had a gas burner, and lava rock pan over. I found I got the best smoke from wrapping in foil and poking a couple holes in I got the best smoke and slower burn time. I used from chips to hunks this way. Don
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My problem was not getting my coals fully lit before pouring them into the pan of coals,and then getting the pan fulling lit before applying lid.Since then,no temp problems pretty much,before mine ran just like yours.Also,sometimes,I will still very slightly prop open lid,dont know why i have to,but a little tweeking you will dial it in.Im at 5000 feet.
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Bart, it seems to me that you did everything correctly. But your description just sounds like the coals weren't hot enough to sustain temp while getting the juices/grease dripped on them. Two thoughts...
The coals needed longer to get going good before hanging meat, and/or
You may have a bag of charcoal that had acquired moisture. How are you storing your coals? Could humidity be an issue?
This is a fuel problem for sure.
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I think the coals are fully lit. They're mostly ashed over, red hot, and distributed evenly across the top of the unlit coals in the basket. After 10 minutes with the lid off, the top layer of coals in the basket looks 90% ashed. Compared to what others have posted, it almost seems as if I'm getting them too hot, but obviously something is still out of balance here.
Regarding my charcoal absorbing moisture, it's a possibility. I've never considered it, because it performs great when grilling in a Weber kettle. It is stored outside, in a deck box, in the original bag. The bag seems crisp (not damp in any way), and the top is rolled tight. I do live in an extremely humid climate, though: Central Florida.
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I think the coals are fully lit. They're mostly ashed over, red hot, and distributed evenly across the top of the unlit coals in the basket. After 10 minutes with the lid off, the top layer of coals in the basket looks 90% ashed. Compared to what others have posted, it almost seems as if I'm getting them too hot, but obviously something is still out of balance here.
Regarding my charcoal absorbing moisture, it's a possibility. I've never considered it, because it performs great when grilling in a Weber kettle. It is stored outside, in a deck box, in the original bag. The bag seems crisp (not damp in any way), and the top is rolled tight. I do live in an extremely humid climate, though: Central Florida.
I'd get a 5 gallon bucket with a gasket seal for storage. Works for me
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That's easy. I'll definitely do that each time I open a new bag. I wonder if the un-opened bags need to be stored this way, as well?
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It's very possible it was that way before you purchased it.
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If it was a problem with moisture in the charcoal, would the charcoal heat up real nice when cracking the lid?
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I normally get my charcoal on the big three days: Memorial, July 4th and Labor day. I usually load myself and I make a point to get them from the middle of the pallet. This way I know those bags have never been exposed to moisture................
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Moisture huh? Ive never made any issue to protect against it,so Ive been letting them get moist by sitting on back porch in bag after opening and they just dont dry out right going forward?? Like said above,I never noticed any issue in open cookers,I never knew it made much difference?
Tell me more guys about moisture!
There is no limit within reason how hot you can get the PBC by cracking the lid various heights,Id like mine to have a valve/vent on lid for just that reason.Sounds like something our experts with out of box cooking/ mechanical skills like Tommy or Bigg ER needs to perfect for us.
I know the PBC philosophy is KISS,but a vent option perhaps?
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I have on rare occasions gotten a clunker bag of Kingsford. By clunker I mean slow to light, just never gets to peak temps and fades fast. I have not had a bad bag since I've been using the PBC or PK grill but I would assume that any grill being used with the lid on would be affected more.
I think these clunker bags have more moisture than normal. The pallet could have been rained on, or exposed to high humidity. Charcoal is like a sponge when it comes to moisture. It can get rather humid at times where I live, Illinois.
But I've only taken a few precautions and not had any issues since doing this.
When it's humid, garage floors being cooler than the air, get damp, so if you store bags on floor make sure that you have a moisture barrier under the charcoal. A sheet of styrofoam works great but a sheet of plastic works good too. Most of my charcoal and wood pellets are up in the loft of my garage where it's much drier. Containers with lids such as buckets work well, as do Rubbermaid barrels etc.
Hope this helps!
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Charcoal already contains a certain amount of moisture in it otherwise it would not hold together. It will absorb more moisture. In a cooker like the PBC more moisture can have an effect on the cooking process. Also ambient humidity could also be a factor.
I would like to hear Noah or Amber's opinion on this...
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When I meant moisture, I should have said the bags getting wet. I had a bag of KBB not burn worth a darn and I noticed the water ring on the one section of the bag....
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You probably won't like this, but for some reason I couldn't get my temp up using a chimney. After reading on here that some used the lighter fluid method with success , I tried it and never had a problem since.
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Hey whatever works for you is the way to go! 8)
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I love using the lighter fluid method...been doing it for 4 years now............
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You probably won't like this, but for some reason I couldn't get my temp up using a chimney. After reading on here that some used the lighter fluid method with success , I tried it and never had a problem since.
. . . I've been watching this thread since it started and thinking about my experiences with charcoal and lighting it. I own two charcoal cookers, the PBC and a Weber Performer.
Mostly I use the Performer for medium-time cooking and usually light it with the built-in gas starter, using two of the charcoal holders centered over the flame. I've never had a bad burn using that method. Likewise, on the few occasions I've lit it with a chimney, I've had no problems, either. I think this is because it has both top and bottom vent adjustments and one can fairly quickly learn how to adjust to desired burn levels. It is also fairly easy to add more coals with the hinged grates.
On the PBC I've never used anything but Noah's recommended lighter fuel. It is easy to get the level of briquettes in the basket to the right level, douse them, drop in a match and wait 20 minutes. I've never had anything except a perfect fully lit basket. And, I've never had any "flavoring" at all from the lighter. It totally burns off. I don't add more charcoal during the cook, I don't add wood chips or chunks, and I don't mess with the lid, rebar, or bottom vent. I just cook the groceries for the amount of time recommended in the PBC videos. Never had any bad food that wasn't my fault (learned not to hang chicken quarters -- they'll fall off).
I'll admit I've been around outdoor cooking for a long time and, in the process, I've bought into the "lore" that charcoal lighter adds an unwanted taste. Not true (at least with the PBC used as recommended). I'll add only that I use either Kingsford or Gulf lighter, not store brands or any that I've never heard of. I always use a full basket of freshly poured briquettes (no used ones) of Kingsford or another premium brand, and I always carefully time the lighting to 20 minutes before I hang the meat. It works!
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My experience mirrors Hub's almost exactly. I understand (as Tee has pointed out) that various folks have different sensitivities and tastes. However, for my family, the friends (and strangers) that show up every time I light the grill, and me, this has been perfect.
Something I learned awhile ago - I am NOT the type of guy that will maintain a stick burner... just too much going on and I do not have that level of dedication and patience. I admire those that do, but understand that I don't. On the other hand, I've just never felt comfortable with gas (oops... humor...) I like charcoal, and I do like wood on the fire pit.
My charcoal grills are very good, and I love the PBC. Like Hub, I follow Noah's recco's / videos and have had great success. I enjoy reading about the mods / suggestions from the forum and think about them as they relate to my cooks. I may, at some point try them - but for now, this is working well, the food is good and the folks I cook for enjoy it.
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Was it just this cook or this is happening on every cook?
You got ribs and chicken, that's a lot of drippings hitting those coals.
I take it your ribs had been on there for a while before the chicken went in. The temp was already stable then it got hit by fresh drippings from the chicken?
You process seems spot on.
I have never cooked ribs and chicken together because I cook chicken at >325 degrees.
I have done beef and ribs together.
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Dare I say this...
If it's the grease fog flavor that you don't like, then it's entirely possible that the PBC may not be cooker for you.
I can relate to this because I'm not a fan of that grease fog taste either, which is why I rarely ever cook foods that drip a lot (chicken, burgers, etc.) directly over hot coals, and part of the reason why I don't think I'd enjoy a PBC.
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Dare I say this...
If it's the grease fog flavor that you don't like, then it's entirely possible that the PBC may not be cooker for you.
I can relate to this because I'm not a fan of that grease fog taste either, which is why I rarely ever cook foods that drip a lot (chicken, burgers, etc.) directly over hot coals, and part of the reason why I don't think I'd enjoy a PBC.
That makes sense. As I have said before - to quote my Aussie friend - "It's horses for courses." In other words, we all need to choose what works best for us.
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You probably won't like this, but for some reason I couldn't get my temp up using a chimney. After reading on here that some used the lighter fluid method with success , I tried it and never had a problem since.
. . . I've been watching this thread since it started and thinking about my experiences with charcoal and lighting it. I own two charcoal cookers, the PBC and a Weber Performer.
Mostly I use the Performer for medium-time cooking and usually light it with the built-in gas starter, using two of the charcoal holders centered over the flame. I've never had a bad burn using that method. Likewise, on the few occasions I've lit it with a chimney, I've had no problems, either. I think this is because it has both top and bottom vent adjustments and one can fairly quickly learn how to adjust to desired burn levels. It is also fairly easy to add more coals with the hinged grates.
On the PBC I've never used anything but Noah's recommended lighter fuel. It is easy to get the level of briquettes in the basket to the right level, douse them, drop in a match and wait 20 minutes. I've never had anything except a perfect fully lit basket. And, I've never had any "flavoring" at all from the lighter. It totally burns off. I don't add more charcoal during the cook, I don't add wood chips or chunks, and I don't mess with the lid, rebar, or bottom vent. I just cook the groceries for the amount of time recommended in the PBC videos. Never had any bad food that wasn't my fault (learned not to hang chicken quarters -- they'll fall off).
I'll admit I've been around outdoor cooking for a long time and, in the process, I've bought into the "lore" that charcoal lighter adds an unwanted taste. Not true (at least with the PBC used as recommended). I'll add only that I use either Kingsford or Gulf lighter, not store brands or any that I've never heard of. I always use a full basket of freshly poured briquettes (no used ones) of Kingsford or another premium brand, and I always carefully time the lighting to 20 minutes before I hang the meat. It works!
I think Noah's first video he used only Kingsford fluid to start kingsford blue charcoal and later added the chimney method. I thought it might be because Kingsford backed him to start his company. Anyway years ago fluid was about the only way people started their grills...sure remembered that smell.
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It wasn't all that long ago that you wouldn't dare add unlit charcoal to lit coals during cooking........Jim Minion changed all that............
I think Noah introduced the Chimney Starter method because there are some folk out there that just flat out do not like using Lighter Fluid. Now that might be from getting grub from your Pops grill back in the 60's or actually being able to pick up the taste. Lighter fluids are much better now and when used correctly are a great aid in starting a fire. I have seen Mixon use Kingsford lighter fluid to get his $$$$$$ pit going at comps...
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From what you wrote it appears you are lighting correctly. I've heard of this problem before with people right at sea level.....humidity maybe?? Also the times seem about right especially for the temps you were getting. I would start with the intake opened more next time and see what happens. Maybe start with it 1/2 opened. Mind if i ask how you monitored the temp?
If the flavor of the smoke you get from the meat dripping in the coals is too strong, I would use a diffuser. Can be as simple as a pizza pan with a few holes cut into it. If you really don't like that flavor use a drip pan. You'll have to rig something to sit about 2-3" above the coals, basically on top of the coal basket handle.
Another thought based on your description of what happened is that you never got a hot fire thus you had bad smoke......especially with the wood you put in there...just a thought......
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1Bigg_ER: It was just this cook that produced such an intense grease fog taste, but it was present to lesser degrees on other cooks. And yes, I added the chicken about an hour after the ribs were first hung, so there may have been more dripping going on, or for a more extended time, than other cooks.
TentHunteR: It is a possibility that I prefer meat from a smoker. However, I do like charcoal-grilled meat, as well, and the PBC is somewhere between the two. Therefore, I know I must be doing something wrong with the PBC.
Aclarke44: I'm almost at sea level, and definitely have extremely high humidity this time of year. This cook was during mid-90's air temps with probably 90% humidity. I monitored cooker temp by placing a probe inside a rebar hole, up to it's 90-degree bend, at an angle to place the probe in open air. You may be onto something regarding the not-hot fire and bad smoke. It obviously wasn't hot enough to the get cook times stated in PBC videos.
I e-mailed PBC and pointed them to this thread. Amber called me within a couple of hours (on a Sunday!) with this advice:
- Skip the wood chips, at least for now.
- If I'm chimney starting the charcoal, let it burn for only 12 minutes.
- Dump it on the unlit coals in the PBC.
- Hang meat immediately.
- Add lid immediately.
I'm going to follow this procedure, then let you all know how it goes.
Thank you for your help!
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Bart - tho I live in a complete different part of the country and topography - I follow the same routine.
I live in a rain forest, high on a mountain in the Blue Ridge Mountains. It is common for us to have humidity that equals our temperatures. We know that when temperature expressed as Fahrenheit is within 3 degrees of humidity percentage - you can get condensation on surfaces.
So - imagine what can happen when we are sucking moisture rich air into the PBS - and rapidly heating it. Steam! ;D
Keep us posted on your progress and - keep the good cooks coming!
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Back in the early 2000's, all I used was a UDS type smoker and found that some people did not actually enjoy the grease fog flavor. My family after about 5 years of drum smoking pulled a revolt and didn't want any more food off of that type of smoker............
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Aclarke44: I'm almost at sea level, and definitely have extremely high humidity this time of year. This cook was during mid-90's air temps with probably 90% humidity. I monitored cooker temp by placing a probe inside a rebar hole, up to it's 90-degree bend, at an angle to place the probe in open air. You may be onto something regarding the not-hot fire and bad smoke. It obviously wasn't hot enough to the get cook times stated in PBC videos.
I e-mailed PBC and pointed them to this thread. Amber called me within a couple of hours (on a Sunday!) with this advice:
- Skip the wood chips, at least for now.
- If I'm chimney starting the charcoal, let it burn for only 12 minutes.
- Dump it on the unlit coals in the PBC.
- Hang meat immediately.
- Add lid immediately.
I'm going to follow this procedure, then let you all know how it goes.
Thank you for your help!
Couple things. First, the procedure Amber gave you is nearly the exact method I use. Only thing is I use a propane burner from a turkey fryer under the chimney to get the coals going quicker. I do let it run about 10 min though. Once all the coals are pretty much glowing red I dump them on top of the coal basket unlit coals. I also use 3-4 smaller wood chunks. But obviously do what Amber said.
The other thing though I think you need to change is how you monitor temps. I believe the way you explained how you set your probe is not giving you an accurate reading. .....or I should say not giving you an accurate reading based on where the food is cooking. A friend of mine was doing something similar and I told him to move the probe closer to where the meat is cooking and farther away from the side of the PBC. He noticed about a 20° difference. Try hanging it like I did in the pic below and see if your temps aren't a little higher. Obviously that doesn't address the temp drop but I think you'll have a better idea what temp your meat is cooking at and maybe you'll like it..... :)
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg495/aclarke400/Mobile%20Uploads/20150607_170424_zpsxbscwnll.jpg)
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OK guys this is for those of you at sea level (or very close) with the temp drop issue. I spoke with Noah today (he is every bit as friendly and easy to talk to as you've heard).....I explained it seems that there were folks in humid areas that had issues with temps dropping in the PBC. Assuming you are following the lighting procedures correctly he said to try opening your vent cap (intake) to 1/2 open. He also said he thinks the temps dropping could be due to the humidity getting to the charcoal you are using and it may be obsorbing some of the moisture (my words). If your temps still drop he said to crack your lid 3/4" and let it stay that for for at least 20 minutes. That will help the fire get going better. He thinks those two procudures will help with the issue. He said it seems that people in humid areas buy a bag of coal open it and cook with little or no issues but run into the temp issues when they cook again with the remaining coal (that was left in the bag not in the coal basket after a cook). That's why he thinks the humidity may be getting to the charcoal.
Now he didn't say this but I believe cracking the lid for 20 minutes may help "dry out" your coals so to speak. If the humidity is getting to the charcoal, that along with the juices dripping on the coals would help us understand the temp drop. Your coals don't have to look or feel wet either. But don't forget charcoal will absorb moisture and unless they are soaked you probably won't know. I didn't even think about that when I mentioned the temp drop issue seem to only be in humid areas. I would also recommend putting your charcoal in an air tight container after opening to keep humidity out.
Hopefully this will help you guys.....
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Thanks for posting this...I live close to sea level and high humidity. I posted awhile back that I was having a lot of moisture collecting inside my lid a getting a creosote smell my PBC. I pretty much did what Noah told you.....I opened the intake more and put a folded piece of aluminum foil to crack the lid.
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That's good. Do you leave the foil under the lid throughout the cook or just for 20-30 min?
I also wonder if lighting more coals in the beginning would work too. Noah didn't say that but I wonder if 5-10 more lit coals from the beginning would help....
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Well, I haven't sold my PBC yet, and there have been a couple of suggestions I hadn't tried, so I did one more cook with the same meat (chicken leg quarters). This time, however, I changed a whole list of other factors, and guess what? Most of the problems went away.
Here's what changed:
- Humidity was only 47%, compared to 90%+ in all previous cooks.
- Bottom vent was open wider (a little less than 1/2, according to PBC instructions).
- Charcoal pan was lifted 3/8" on small scraps of ceramic tile.
- Used brand new bag of Kingsford Original, never opened, stored indoors.
- Used lighter fluid lighting method, lit at four points around outside edges of grate.
- Two large wood chunks added, between charcoal grate and edges of PBC.
- Burn-in time was 20 min with lid off, and 80-90% of coals ashed over during that time.
- Coals were so hot when lid was added, flames were rising from the middle.
And... What I think was the most important change:
- I trimmed all extra skin and fat from chicken prior to hanging.
There was no excessive dripping or sizzling from the chicken during the cook, no thick white smoke (just thin blue), and NO grease fog taste to the chicken - a first for me.
Here's how the barrel temps went:
Hit 311º peak temp a few minutes after adding lid, then it quickly fell.
0:15 272º
0:30 246º
0:45 232º
1:00 227º
Probe was moved to a chicken thigh at this point, and it read as follows:
1:00 159º
1:15 160º
1:30 163º
Cracked the lid (slid sideways) to crisp up the skin
1:45 165º
1:50 169º and a lot more smoke was rolling
Pulled it for dinner
It was delicious, and a lot closer to what I was expecting when purchasing the Pit Barrel.
Bottom line:
- I think the barrel temps are still dropping too fast, but would like to hear some opinions.
- Trimming the chicken skin & fat made a huge difference. Less grease drippings = almost no grease fog taste.
So that's the chicken you've all been raving about!
I've posted these issues in a couple of other threads, so this will be duplicated in them, as well. Hopefully it will help others.