Let's Talk BBQ
Outdoor Cooking Equipment => Grills & Smokers => Electric Smokers => Topic started by: RG on May 28, 2016, 08:10:25 PM
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As you may know from This Thread (http://www.letstalkbbq.com/index.php?topic=17304.0) I bought a Wagyu brisket from Snake River Farms as well as a Choice packer from Walmart. I wanted to compare the $139.00 Wagyu brisket to the $34.00 choice brisket. So I did and here's the results.
After trimming, they both were close to the same weight. I took far more off of the choice than the Wagyu. I prepped them the same, rubbed with a mixture of pickle juice and yellow mustard as John Lewis of LA Barbecue does and then I applied the rub he uses which is 8 parts coarse black pepper, 3 parts kosher salt, 3 parts Lawry's Seasoning Salt, 1 part granulated garlic. I used teaspoons as my "part". I made several batches of this and put it into a shaker. The reason I used this rub is that John used to work for Aaron and I am pretty sure it's a monkey see monkey do type of thing.
I smoked them with white "post" oak like they do in Texas. I put them on the Smokin-It #3, the choice on bottom and the Wagyu on top. The choice had some of it's bark washed off from the drippings above. I knew that would happen, that's why I put it on bottom ;)
My initial plan was to pull at 160° and wrap but when I went down at 4:30 this morning to check, the color wasn't where I wanted it yet so I let them ride for a while longer. I let them both get through the stall and then wrapped. After wrapping, I put them in a towel lined cooler to hold for a few hours and then took them out and took off the butcher paper and let them cool to around 145° then sliced. A little of the flat and some of the point of each were sliced. I called my Wife in to take pics while I was doing brisket surgery, some of the pictures were not so hot as she is a one click and done photographer for the most part these days. She used to take 10 shots of the same angle, lol.
After the slices were laid out, I had her close her eyes and gave her a small taste of the choice flat, then the little burnt corner that's the first cut piece of the flat, then a little taste of the point. The same procedure was done on the Wagyu, same order. In every single piece given, she liked the Wagyu best. It was more moist and had a deeper beefier flavor and was more tender. Overall though, I would say it was definitely better than the choice but if I am being honest here, it's not $100 better! I would like to cook one on an offset but I no longer have one. I thought about cooking them on 2 different Kegs but I went with just putting them on one smoker so I could say that all things were equal.
Here are some pictures to gander - there's a lot of'em so be warned!
Wagyu got the top bunk
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron12.jpg)
Just pulled out of the cooler
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron13.jpg)
Wagyu
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron14.jpg)
Choice
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron15.jpg)
Wagyu up top, choice near
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron16.jpg)
Choice
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron17.jpg)
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron18.jpg)
Wagyu
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron19.jpg)
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron20.jpg)
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron21.jpg)
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron22.jpg)
The "sample" board - Wagyu closest, choice up top
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron23.jpg)
Wagyu fatty
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron24.jpg)
Served with pickles, onions, red potato salad, corn on the cob and white bread ( yes, that IS sauce, y'all know I like it! :P )
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron25.jpg)
Mixture of Wagyu and Choice - The Rest is about to be Vac sealed
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron26.jpg)
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We sure appreciate this cook you did RG. I am in total agreement that Wagyu is not worth the extra 100.00 but I have working mans taste buds and most of our red meat we eat is select.
SRF brisket is great for a super special occasion I think.
The Smokin-It did a darn fine job.
I am in a hunt for a brisket and will off-set it for ya as soon as I get it..............
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We sure appreciate this cook you did RG. I am in total agreement that Wagyu is not worth the extra 100.00 but I have working mans taste buds and most of our red meat we eat is select.
SRF brisket is great for a super special occasion I think.
The Smokin-It did a darn fine job.
I am in a hunt for a brisket and will off-set it for ya as soon as I get it..............
I'm looking forward to it!
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Great cook! I love the look of both. Personally I am cheap and would have a hard time spending that on any meat! However, it looks great and think that you did a great job.
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RG, you did a great job on both briskets...they both look delicious; however, you failed to mention the outcome of the original objective of this cook. How close did you come to emulating Aaron Franklin's brisket? Did you nail it? Was it the same texture, moistness, or taste? How did either brisket compare to Franklin's BBQ? Is there anything you would try next time to get it closer to the Franklin taste profile or smoke profile? Did the white oak smell as good as the post oak you smelled at Franklin's? The reason I ask this question is because, in Texas, I'm not sure anybody thinks post oak is the same as white oak. If it is the same, I'm buying a sawmill and cutting up all my post oak trees into hardwood lumber at $7.00 a board foot for white oak. I'm gonna get rich. And to think I was just cutting it up for bbq wood.
I thank you for doing this test. And thanks to your wife for being the blind taste test judge. It's a good job if you can get it.
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I meant to elaborate more but I posted that in a rush, lol. I was out fooling around with the pool then my wife wanted to go putt around in her Jeep once it cooled off outside a bit :)
To answer somewhat in order : Did it taste like Franklin's? Not no but hell no! As you can see by the pics of the point, it was glistening whereas the choice, while moist, was not. So it WAS a nice brisket but by no means was it as good as Franklin BBQ. I wish I could say it was. Truth be told (and I know you're going to think I'm nuts) the Wagyu could've gone longer on the smoker. I probed it at 196° and it was close so I went ahead and pulled it hoping carryover heat would do the rest. It was perfect in some spots, not rendered enough in others. It was the strangest brisket that I've ever cooked. I think I could've went to 210° with it!
Although it did taste better than the choice, it wasn't a giant leap forward. It was more tender and moist but not like "WOW, THIS BRISKET WAS MADE BY THE HAND OF GOD". It was I'd say 10-15% better so like I said earlier, most definitely not worth $100.00 more in price.
Lastly, did it smell like it did at Franklin's? Nuh Uh, not even a little like it. The reason being, I don't have 7 smokers billowing out post oak goodness into the air. The Smokin-It, like the Cookshack and Smoking Tex, uses very little wood to smoke or you'll make your food oversmoked and bitter. So......failed there too! As for white oak being post oak, it certainly is. Same tree, they call it post oak due to it being used to make posts so it got that as kind of a nickname. After tlg4942 posted that link (http://forestry.about.com/od/hardwoods/tp/Quercus_stellata.htm) about it in my other post, I did some more research and found what he posted to be consistent with other things I've read. So I guess it's time for you to cash in :)
One other thing to consider, the smoker. Nothing I own, not my 2 pellet grills, nor my 3 Kegs, not my PBC, nothing is going to match Aaron's Smokers. I can get meat like him, we all can. I can prep it like him, I can season it like him, I can wrap it in peach butcher paper like him but I can't make it turn out like he can! Nobody can, so I don't feel too badly ;)
Stephanie, my Wife, was all too happy to help with the test BTW, she LOVES brisket! She might as well be an honorary Texan :P As y'all know, we here in Georgia are pretty keen on our swine. I grew up eating pork as BBQ and brisket is something that quite honestly I didn't eat until probably 5 years ago!
I am anxious to see how Scott does with his attempt on his BK Offset. I'll be watching THAT fo sho!!
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Also, for those wondering about this pic
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/aaron22.jpg)
I know it looks weird but the way I cut briskets is also like Aaron does his. I start on the flat and cut that little corner off and then cut it in half.
I then continue down the flat, cutting smaller pieces at first that widen as I go toward the point. Once I reach the area where the point extends under the flat, I make a cut to separate the two pieces and then I cut the point in half and then begin cutting wider sections of that working my way out toward the bark. When I cut off slices, I only take what is needed and leave the larger piece intact so it doesn't get oxidized and dry out. I either turn the cut side toward the cutting board or face it against another whole piece, butted up against each other. That's what you see in that first pic where my hand is a blur, lol.
This shows my cutting pattern, the white indicates the splits while the thinner red lines show slice pattern.
(http://www.tpdatlanta.com/bbq/cut01.jpg)
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A great comparison cook!!! Both look good but I just can't bring myself to pay that much for the Wagyu. I like the butcher paper wrap too. I used it a couple of times but on my littler cook deck was a little too messy to work with. TFS! Don
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Good post.
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Good post.
x2 - yes it is. you cover a lot of great points (pun intended) ;)
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Quote from RG:
"Stephanie, my Wife, was all too happy to help with the test BTW, she LOVES brisket! She might as well be an honorary Texan :P As y'all know, we here in Georgia are pretty keen on our swine. I grew up eating pork as BBQ and brisket is something that quite honestly I didn't eat until probably 5 years ago!"
We, the people of Texas, would be honored to have both you and your wife as honorary Texans and duly appoint y'all as such. We fully understand what you had to go through to get that bite of Franklin's BBQ goodness and we can appreciate the dedication you exhibited in trying to emulate that aforementioned goodness. Welcome, fellow Texans!
RG, thanks for the answers. I appreciate them. How about one more question, please? Do you think the rub that you used was close to Franklin's rub or would you change it for the next brisket cook to get closer to the flavor profile? OK, a second question. Did you spritz during the cook or just let 'em ride?
I typically let my briskets go up to around 210 to 212 before they are butter tender, but, for the most part, I am smoking a lesser brisket than you did. Both of your briskets look moist, tender, and delicious.
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Both briskets look good! I am with the group that wouldn't pay the extra $100 for a waygu but maybe someday if I win the lotto I will try one.
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Quote from RG:
"Stephanie, my Wife, was all too happy to help with the test BTW, she LOVES brisket! She might as well be an honorary Texan :P As y'all know, we here in Georgia are pretty keen on our swine. I grew up eating pork as BBQ and brisket is something that quite honestly I didn't eat until probably 5 years ago!"
We, the people of Texas, would be honored to have both you and your wife as honorary Texans and duly appoint y'all as such. We fully understand what you had to go through to get that bite of Franklin's BBQ goodness and we can appreciate the dedication you exhibited in trying to emulate that aforementioned goodness. Welcome, fellow Texans!
RG, thanks for the answers. I appreciate them. How about one more question, please? Do you think the rub that you used was close to Franklin's rub or would you change it for the next brisket cook to get closer to the flavor profile? OK, a second question. Did you spritz during the cook or just let 'em ride?
I typically let my briskets go up to around 210 to 212 before they are butter tender, but, for the most part, I am smoking a lesser brisket than you did. Both of your briskets look moist, tender, and delicious.
I'd say that the rub is close, I tasted notes in it that were reminiscent of Franklin's but he has something else going on. I am almost positive that he spritzes his with a mixture of apple cider vinegar and pickle juice. I actually had a bottle with that very concoction made up but never applied it, lol. I think more smoke, pickle juice/acv mix spritzed every hour or two and I would be closer. I just need to let it ride longer. Because I am strange and I hate defeat, I may give this another go later this summer. I hate to spend the dough on Wagyu again so I'll either source one from Creekstone or another purveyor or I may just go into Atlanta and get a prime packer. I honestly think it'd be close and about half the price.
In return for you making me and my better half honorary Texans, I'll do the same in making you and yours honorary Georgians :) If you develop a strong urge to eat pulled pork you'll know why :P
We are both Southerners by definition, I'm southeast and you're south to southwest I guess :) When it comes to BBQ, I'll be whatever it takes to eat good 'cue and Franklin's was IT!
I'd still like to try Pecan Lodge, Snow's, Smitty's, Kreuz, Blacks, Salt Lick (even though I hear it's more of a gimmick than good BBQ). I'd like to compare others to Franklin but in my limited experience with Texas BBQ, I couldn't imagine anything being better. If there is better then may God help me! I'd probably die eating it, bursting at the seams and happy.
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Thanks for all the "juicy" details...
I have a smoker like Franklin's. It's a Pecos Smoker made by Old Country. I bought it at Academic Sports because it's the one he uses in HIS backyard and in the videos he did for Public Broadcasting Network.
After reading his book, I have had very good results with that smoker and I'm very confident every time I use it.
I picked up an eleven pounder today so I could give it a try. This will be only the 4th brisket for us...the last one was at least 4 months ago.
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B T W, RG...
IR2DUM took me to those places a couple of years ago.
We didn't get to Franklin's in time for anything but pictures.
Of all the places we sampled, I believe the best cue came from the Salt Lick. We tried brisket, pork ribs, and sausage. All were very good imho.
But what do I know - I'm just a backyard jack.
just sayin'...
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I am sure the Pecos makes a great brisket but what I am referring to is what he uses at his restaurant. Although it would be AWESOME to eat brisket in Aaron's back yard, I can say I've only eaten at his restaurant, lol. I am sure what he cooks in those big mamas trumps what he makes in his back yard, I could be wrong though. It has been known to happen (a lot)!
I may have to get another offset. I gave the one I had away, got tired of tending it and back when I had it I knew about 10% of what I now know so I might be able to do some damage with another one!
I'd have to get rid of some stuff though. My PBC is at the top of that list, maybe even ditch a pellet pooper and one of my kegs. Who knows, it could happen! ;)
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Hey! Don't let RG fool you! He does a pretty damn good job with a regular 'ol brisket. I know I've had his. He's a heck of a qu'er!!!!!
So AF uses SRF meats?
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Hey! Don't let RG fool you! He does a pretty damn good job with a regular 'ol brisket. I know I've had his. He's a heck of a qu'er!!!!!
So AF uses SRF meats?
Once upon a time he did. Now he pretty much uses Creekstone all natural. They send him 400 of them a week. Not all are even prime, some are high choice!
It's hard to get an All Natural brisket from them as Franklin requires all they can process!
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Great post!
Fantastic looking briskets!
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In return for you making me and my better half honorary Texans, I'll do the same in making you and yours honorary Georgians :) If you develop a strong urge to eat pulled pork you'll know why :P
We are both Southerners by definition, I'm southeast and you're south to southwest I guess :) When it comes to BBQ, I'll be whatever it takes to eat good 'cue and Franklin's was IT!
I'd still like to try Pecan Lodge, Snow's, Smitty's, Kreuz, Blacks, Salt Lick (even though I hear it's more of a gimmick than good BBQ). I'd like to compare others to Franklin but in my limited experience with Texas BBQ, I couldn't imagine anything being better. If there is better then may God help me! I'd probably die eating it, bursting at the seams and happy.
Thanks, RG. I do have a strong urge to eat pulled pork lately.
You were so close to all those bbq joints (except Pecan Lodge). Sorry you missed some great que. You're right, Salt Lick is a gimmick BBQ joint and tourist trap, but they do have good que.
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Fantastic post! I am a noob with brisket, purchasing whole packers from Costco. Bookmarking this thread for when I tackle brisket #3
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Great post for those of us afraid of brisket.....and I am
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In return for you making me and my better half honorary Texans, I'll do the same in making you and yours honorary Georgians :) If you develop a strong urge to eat pulled pork you'll know why :P
We are both Southerners by definition, I'm southeast and you're south to southwest I guess :) When it comes to BBQ, I'll be whatever it takes to eat good 'cue and Franklin's was IT!
I'd still like to try Pecan Lodge, Snow's, Smitty's, Kreuz, Blacks, Salt Lick (even though I hear it's more of a gimmick than good BBQ). I'd like to compare others to Franklin but in my limited experience with Texas BBQ, I couldn't imagine anything being better. If there is better then may God help me! I'd probably die eating it, bursting at the seams and happy.
Thanks, RG. I do have a strong urge to eat pulled pork lately.
You were so close to all those bbq joints (except Pecan Lodge). Sorry you missed some great que. You're right, Salt Lick is a gimmick BBQ joint and tourist trap, but they do have good que.
Yeah, I know I was close but much to my surprise, there is only so much BBQ one can eat in a short amount of time, lol. It gives me reason to do it again, make another trip!
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Hey! Don't let RG fool you! He does a pretty damn good job with a regular 'ol brisket. I know I've had his. He's a heck of a qu'er!!!!!
So AF uses SRF meats?
Also, that brisket you ate that I made sucked! You're being too kind, lol.
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Fantastic post! I am a noob with brisket, purchasing whole packers from Costco. Bookmarking this thread for when I tackle brisket #3
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You and me both. My first one was crap, second was better. Got two prime Packers in my freezer awaiting my courage
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Fantastic post! I am a noob with brisket, purchasing whole packers from Costco. Bookmarking this thread for when I tackle brisket #3
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Get Prime if you can at Costco, mine never carries whole packers much less Prime.
Great post for those of us afraid of brisket.....and I am
No need to be afraid! There are tricks to almost idiot proof it. Foiling will ensure a moist brisket, you'll just lose out on bark integrity and it'll make more of a pot roast texture as it's steamed. My normal method is to inject with either Fab B Lite or Butcher's Prime, let sit overnight in cryovac (I inject through the bag and put the whole thing on a cookie sheet to catch the leakage).
I then take it out of the cryovac, trim to where I like it while letting it warm up a tad on the cutting board. I normally do not add a rub binder (oil, mustard, etc...) I just use the meat's own wetness allow for the rub to stick. My normal rub contains coarse ground black pepper, paprika, granulated garlic, onion powder, chili powder and sometimes a little cumin. NO BROWN SUGAR on briskets for me, ever. Only Ribs and Butts get brown sugar in this household. I add all of that into a shaker and apply liberally and once done I go back over it with Kosher Salt so I can SEE how much I am adding and it gives me FAR greater control than mixing it in the rub. I smoke it usually with Hickory and Apple and I sometimes wrap in peach butcher's paper but most times let it ride. My Wife is a Bark Shark, she loves it so letting go unwrapped gives her that crusty, crispy bark she loves. The issue is that the flat usually takes a beating when left exposed the whole time, hard to keep it juicy. Butcher paper is good for once it gets the color you want, you wrap it and let it ride until it's soft enough to jiggle :)
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Thanks for all the "juicy" details...
X2 ! ! !
BD
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Looks like a great attempt! I second the others in wanting to try one this summer. I could only find flats on sale at Sams Club (no close by Costcos) and I am not sure I could have fit the flat in my smoker. I may have to work an extra Saturday this summer and use it to by a 22.5" WSM....
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... not sure I could have fit the flat in my smoker...
Not sure what you're cooking on but you can always try "humping" the flat up in the middle when you put it on the rack. As it cooks it will shrink and end up laying flat.
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... not sure I could have fit the flat in my smoker...
Not sure what you're cooking on but you can always try "humping" the flat up in the middle when you put it on the rack. As it cooks it will shrink and end up laying flat.
I may have to try that. I am using the Red Box Smoker - does great for what I normally smoke. This cut is usually quite a bit wider than that though
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In my old CB940X, I would have an empty beer or soda can wrapped in HD foil on standby for big briskets. Just set it on the grate and drape the brisket over it. Later in the cook when the briskie shrinks, you can remove the can or let it ride 8)
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Nice idea... will definitely have to look into that!
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Great looking briskets.
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Hmmmm......this thread has me thinking expensive thoughts, lol