Let's Talk BBQ
Outdoor Cooking Equipment => Grills & Smokers => Charcoal Smokers => Topic started by: capitalhockey on March 30, 2021, 01:07:22 PM
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Long time user of 18'' WSM....looking for more space (had to cut rib to fit inside lid) and some direct heat grilling in a combo unit for my next purchase. For smoking, I like to do a lot of ribs, occasional butts and a few briskets. For grilling, I like to do burgers, hot dogs, steaks and chicken (used to do this on gas grill that I sold). My budget is up to $1200. I prefer one combo unit since I have a small deck space.
I did a wide range of research from pellet grills to Slow N Sear kettle. It's hard to find one that does both well. I am used to set and forget with WSM. I don't mind dialing in on vents but don't want to tend to a fire all day.
I heard lots of good things about pellets but I am hesitant due to less smoke flavor and limited direct grilling. The Slow N Sear kettle was good at both but lacked space (I like to do 3 to 4 ribs per session).
From my research, it seems like the Good One Open Range was the only thing that could provide what I was looking for: 1) Set and Forget temp controls, 2) Good at long smoke, 3) Direct grilling over charcoals , 4) Charcoal/wood flavors that I am used to.
I am wondering if there is something else I should consider that could do those things. I am about to pull the trigger and was offered a 5% discount with a free shelf, free cover and free shipping (about $1100 total). Is this a good deal or should I wait for Memorial Day sales?
Do you think a better strategy is to get 1 dedicated smoker and 1 dedicated grilling units with $1200 budget? Which one do you recommend for each type?
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I used to sell Good One smokers. Not too much room for grilling in the firebox if you go with the Open Range. If you move up to the Marshall you are way out of your price range.
How about a 26 inch Weber with the slo n sear?? That should give you more room.
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How about a kamado with a controller, like a FireBoard or similar?
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another thing to consider about the Good One is that they are notorious for burning sideways in the fire-box. Even after replacing the full length ash pan with a pull out one welded to the fire grate the problem still persists.
You also have to use a heck of amount of lump per cook. That is a deep firebox and it holds almost a 18 lb bag.
Briquettes should not be used because the ash will choke off the fire.
As much as I admire Chris Marks, I do not own a Good One anymore.
I was a cowboy dealer for Ace of Hearts BBQ when I sold them and dealt with Chris alot.
I think for 1200.00, you should look elsewhere..............imho
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another thing to consider about the Good One is that they are notorious for burning sideways in the fire-box. Even after replacing the full length ash pan with a pull out one welded to the fire grate the problem still persists.
You also have to use a heck of amount of lump per cook. That is a deep firebox and it holds almost a 18 lb bag.
Briquettes should not be used because the ash will choke off the fire.
As much as I admire Chris Marks, I do not own a Good One anymore.
I was a cowboy dealer for Ace of Hearts BBQ when I sold them and dealt with Chris alot.
I think for 1200.00, you should look elsewhere..............imho
Thanks Smoke....I was not aware of those issues. Looks like ABS All Star is similar design with limited reviews.
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I do not know how ABS hangs around. They have a very small web presence and I have never known anyone that owned one.
I only knew about them because they are so similar to the Good One.
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I have used the Masterbuilt Gravity-feed 560 for over a year. It operates similarly to a pelletizer but using charcoal. It is the best smoker I've used and has a range of temp up to 700 degrees
They have two models larger than the 560 - both well within your budget.
Check 'em out online.
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I agree with Jaxon, the Masterbuilt 1050 that I own is a pretty darn good unit. The controller may not be spot-on all of the time so, I track the temperatures with a FireBoard and adjust the settings accordingly. As you can see from my signature line, I like it better than the pellet pit I used for several years. I never grill on it, though.
Some people have suggested that the Masterbuilt Gravity Feed line is cheaply made and won't last long. Maybe so, but it's priced in a way that makes it easier to replace. The typical gravity feed smoker is thousands of dollars more.
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I have used the Masterbuilt Gravity-feed 560 for over a year. It operates similarly to a pelletizer but using charcoal. It is the best smoker I've used and has a range of temp up to 700 degrees
They have two models larger than the 560 - both well within your budget.
Check 'em out online.
Jackson, do you still have the 36-inch Assassin smoker/grill? Would that meet capitalhockey's needs?
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I have used the Masterbuilt Gravity-feed 560 for over a year. It operates similarly to a pelletizer but using charcoal. It is the best smoker I've used and has a range of temp up to 700 degrees
They have two models larger than the 560 - both well within your budget.
Check 'em out online.
My brother has a 560 and let me cooked on it a few times. It does a great job of smoking but grilling is only from indirect heat. I miss direct heat grilling over charcoals.
I feel like I am chasing an unicorn combo grill that is great at both smoking and grilling. Maybe two different units is a better strategy to use my $1200 budget?
I am not too familiar with Assassin grills....how do they compare with your 560?
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I do not know how ABS hangs around. They have a very small web presence and I have never known anyone that owned one.
I only knew about them because they are so similar to the Good One.
I only saw a few reviews of them online from users....not much youtube videos or any other mentions of it. It's not a cheap...around 1400 but is bigger than Open Range.
For that price, I would more comfortable hearing from users before committing.
What smoker/grill do you use these days after getting rid of your Open Range?
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How about a kamado with a controller, like a FireBoard or similar?
I don't have any experience with Kamado grills but heard they were good at everything but not great at anything. I also heard they are hard to bring temps down if you overshoot target? Is that an accurate assessment?
Since the charcoals are at bottom, it would be hard to add or stir the charcoals during a cook. How do you deal with this issue?
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(1) I don't have any experience with Kamado grills but heard they were good at everything but not great at anything. (2) I also heard they are hard to bring temps down if you overshoot target? Is that an accurate assessment?
Since the charcoals are at bottom, it would be hard to add or stir the charcoals during a cook. (3) How do you deal with this issue?
(1) Everyone has different expectations as to taste. With a kamado, a user that's smoking meat builds a charcoal fire and puts as many wood chunks as they like on top of the burning charcoal. The temperature is controlled by restricting the air flow to the fire. This is the way a lot of smokers work, including the Masterbuilt Gravity series (in fact, any gravity-feed smoker). I've been told that it's a different smoke flavor from a stick burner (which I also have) that controls the temperature and smoke flavor by controlling the fire size, not necessarily by controlling the air flow (but sometimes). Evidently my palate isn't sensitive enough to differentiate the two.
Grilling is easy on a kamado, the charcoal is below the grate. You build your fire and you grill away. Reverse searing a steak after smoking is easy. Smoke it at 225°, remove the heat deflectors, install the grates, crank the heat (air flow) and sear.
(2) Yep. That's an accurate assessment. One of the kamado's strengths is that they are generally made of material with high thermal mass, so you can open the lid, spritz and close the lid without losing cooking temperature. But if you overshoot your desired cooking temperature by an appreciable amount you may as well go take a nap because it'll be a while before the temperature drops 75° or so.
(3) I don't ever need to stir lit kamado charcoal, even on a smoke that lasts several hours. You can easily smoke 15 hours on one charcoal load and not need to stir or add charcoal.
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I feel the need to clarify, or at least add to some of my posts in this thread.
First, you wrote that you prefer a unit that will both smoke and grill because you have limited space. Because a smoker and a grill have vastly different goals, I think that you’ll have to settle for a device that somewhat compromises smoking and/or grilling proficiency—maybe both, if you hold to this. The need reminds me of the attempt to design dual-purpose fishing rods or golf clubs. The best fishing rods and golf clubs are designed to do one thing, so designing a dual-purpose one produces a unit that’s usable but not ideal.
The best smoker fire (sweetest smoke) is a fire that’s burning freely and not being smothered by a lack of oxygen. That’s a stick burner. But a stick burner has a giant fire-tending learning curve. The less-than-experts have to throttle back on the air flow to choke down the fire when the stick burner fire gets too hot. Doing so creates at least a bit of smoldering and smoke that’s a bit tainted by undesirable components.
The Karubecue C-60 is a stick burner that allows the smoke wood to burn freely into the atmosphere. It maintains pit temperature and flavoring smoke by drawing in the heat and pure smoke only when the pit is below its set point. For most of us backyard smokers, it produces the purest smoked goods, but it’s not at all automatic or set and forget. It requires attention every 20 minutes or so. The C-60 will set you back $1,400. It’s worth it.
There are many great charcoal grills. The PK and Weber Kettle are great. They’re both relatively portable. Maybe you can find a place to tuck one of them away.
My advice…stretch your budget, buy the Karubecue C-60 and a charcoal grill.
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I feel the need to clarify, or at least add to some of my posts in this thread.
First, you wrote that you prefer a unit that will both smoke and grill because you have limited space. Because a smoker and a grill have vastly different goals, I think that you’ll have to settle for a device that somewhat compromises smoking and/or grilling proficiency—maybe both, if you hold to this. The need reminds me of the attempt to design dual-purpose fishing rods or golf clubs. The best fishing rods and golf clubs are designed to do one thing, so designing a dual-purpose one produces a unit that’s usable but not ideal.
The best smoker fire (sweetest smoke) is a fire that’s burning freely and not being smothered by a lack of oxygen. That’s a stick burner. But a stick burner has a giant fire-tending learning curve. The less-than-experts have to throttle back on the air flow to choke down the fire when the stick burner fire gets too hot. Doing so creates at least a bit of smoldering and smoke that’s a bit tainted by undesirable components.
The Karubecue C-60 is a stick burner that allows the smoke wood to burn freely into the atmosphere. It maintains pit temperature and flavoring smoke by drawing in the heat and pure smoke only when the pit is below its set point. For most of us backyard smokers, it produces the purest smoked goods, but it’s not at all automatic or set and forget. It requires attention every 20 minutes or so. The C-60 will set you back $1,400. It’s worth it.
There are many great charcoal grills. The PK and Weber Kettle are great. They’re both relatively portable. Maybe you can find a place to tuck one of them away.
My advice…stretch your budget, buy the Karubecue C-60 and a charcoal grill.
that’s good insight on compromising two purpose in one unit.....would love a KBC later in my life...currently have a baby and toddler so life is busy for fire tending
I’m leaning towards a masterbuilt 1050 and a kettle....still under my 1200 budget
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I owned an Assassin grill for about a year. It was 48 in long. It was the most difficult of all the grills I've had when it came to heat and smoke control - needed constant attention.
Fortunately, I was able to sell it for the same amount that I paid for it...the guy just HAD to have it because his friend had one like it.
BTW, Assassin grills are made about 10 to 15 minutes from my house.
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I owned an Assassin grill for about a year. It was 48 in long. It was the most difficult of all the grills I've had when it came to heat and smoke control - needed constant attention.
Did you try to ameliorate that by building a charcoal maze and/or using an airflow controller like a BBQ Guru or the FireBoard Drive & Blower?
EDIT: In hindsight—I hijacked your thread, capitalhockey, but you may find that the Assassin has merit if the problems Jackson had can be remedied.
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I owned an Assassin grill for about a year. It was 48 in long. It was the most difficult of all the grills I've had when it came to heat and smoke control - needed constant attention.
Fortunately, I was able to sell it for the same amount that I paid for it...the guy just HAD to have it because his friend had one like it.
BTW, Assassin grills are made about 10 to 15 minutes from my house.
Which equipment do you use most these days?
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I owned an Assassin grill for about a year. It was 48 in long. It was the most difficult of all the grills I've had when it came to heat and smoke control - needed constant attention.
Did you try to ameliorate that by building a charcoal maze and/or using an airflow controller like a BBQ Guru or the FireBoard Drive & Blower?
EDIT: In hindsight—I hijacked your thread, capitalhockey, but you may find that the Assassin has merit if the problems Jackson had can be remedied.
No worries....good to know which one I can cross off my list....I like set and forget units
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I used the snake method in the Assassin 48. It worked if I was going low and slow, but I had to keep the water pan in place. Because I couldn't keep enough water in it, the pan buckled and twisted, and that made it hard to pull it out of its racks.
I love the "set and forget" feature of the 560 as well as the ability to control the amount of smoke I get.
As far as grilling goes, if you let the grates get to temp, you will find that it's pretty much like "direct grilling". You can certainly sear steaks beautifully at 600 degrees.
My go to smoker is the 560 - for high-temp grilling my go to grill is the 560.
My only regret I have is that the 1050 was not available when I made my purchase.
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I used the snake method in the Assassin 48. It worked if I was going low and slow, but I had to keep the water pan in place. Because I couldn't keep enough water in it, the pan buckled and twisted, and that made it hard to pull it out of its racks.
I love the "set and forget" feature of the 560 as well as the ability to control the amount of smoke I get.
As far as grilling goes, if you let the grates get to temp, you will find that it's pretty much like "direct grilling". You can certainly sear steaks beautifully at 600 degrees.
My go to smoker is the 560 - for high-temp grilling my go to grill is the 560.
My only regret I have is that the 1050 was not available when I made my purchase.
I heard 1050 eats up a lot more fuel than 560. How many ppl do you usually cook for? We are a family of 4 and entertain up to 10 folks on occasion. I just saw a 560 on discount near me for $300. The 1050 is holding strong at $800. Trying to decide if 1050's extra space is worth the extra costs. What do you recommend?
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Using a rib rack, I can comfortably cook 3 racks of ribs. Can also cook two butts. I'm usually cooking for the 2 of us, but I almost always cook two racks - one to freeze for later.
I do all the smoking on the upper grate, with a water pan on the main grate.
You will use a good bit more charcoal in the 1050 simply because it is twice as big...when I cooked with the Assassin 48, I used nearly a whole bag to cook two racks of ribs.
I'm sure you won't be able to cook for ten or more with anything smaller than the 1050 UNLESS...
Think about TWO 560s...one for the four of you and two for the cookouts. What an idea!
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I like set and forget units
I've never owned an Assassin, but I've looked into them a few times. Jaxon's not a rookie, so he should be listened to.
But it seems to me that since the charcoal fire is below the grate, a charcoal maze with smoke wood mixed in and a temperature controller like the BBQ Guru or FireBoard Drive & Blower might make it into a sweet unit for smoking and grilling.
The controller should allow you accuracy for low and slow and move the air around for even heat like a convection unit while a hot fire directly below the grate would be perfect for grilling.
I'm just speculating though.
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capitalhockey, it occurs to me that a drum smoker may fit your needs nicely. You can easily smoke and grill on them. I had one for a while and I think it’s the absolute best pit for smoking chicken. The downside is that the paint chips easily and the exposed steel rusts. As near as I can tell, all lids are the normal drum lid that holds rainwater and encourages rust. But Big Poppa offers a stainless-steel drum kit that solves that problem.
There are hundreds of videos on YouTube for recipes, tips and tricks.
If I were to buy one today, I think I’d buy a Gateway or a Hunsaker. The Hunsaker has a lid hinge that reduces the chances of chipping the lid paint and there are some aftermarket hinges available.
They're set and forget if you add a stoker-type controller.
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I used to sell Good One smokers. Not too much room for grilling in the firebox if you go with the Open Range. If you move up to the Marshall you are way out of your price range.
How about a 26 inch Weber with the slo n sear?? That should give you more room.
x2 on the 26" Weber
They are pretty easy to control temps or you could get a controller. I use my 22" Weber for most stuff still, I did a 15lb brisket on it last month. Do steaks, burgers and chicken all the time.
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Way to keep us in suspense, capitalhockey. :)
What did you buy?