Let's Talk BBQ
FORUM SPONSORS => Pit Barrel Cooker Co. => Topic started by: DonR9 on November 21, 2014, 06:51:32 PM
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I need some help &/or advice. I've done two cooks now: Chicken and Ribs. Both were good. Neither was outstanding.
That's the reference to Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid. When that movie came out in 1969, it was met with absolutely rave reviews. I couldn't wait to go see it. My brother went to see it and called it the best movie he'd ever seen. (Now, at the time, he was only 26, so his sample size wasn't what it has subsequently become) My expectations were unbelievably high. I went to see it. I was disappointed. My expectations were so high, I guess it would have been impossible for the movie to meet them. That's kind of where I am after two cooks.
I know this thing should be a set it and forget it experience. I think I've got the vent set appropriately. But, how do I know for sure? Am I looking for an internal temperature range or do I simply set what's about 1/4 the way open and not tinker from there? Just keep cooking, until I get things right? It seems to me that there is an ideal temperature range inside the barrel. If I know that range, and I'm not in that range, then my fire starting technique may be wrong. My amount of coal may be wrong. There may be something else wrong.
One thing for sure will improve things for me. The rubs that came with the unit are far too high in salt content for my taste. If you look at the list of ingredients for each of the two included rubs, salt is the first ingredient listed. I'm going to go with Meathead Goldwyn's Memphis Dust, which is a salt free rub, and see what that gets me.
Do any of you use a temperature probe to determine appropriate cook times? I'm thinking a ChefAlarm probe in my chicken or turkey should give me an idea of when I'm where I want to be. That probe probably won't work with ribs, since I'm not sure I can get the probe in a place in the rib rack where it isn't affected by the temperature of the bone. However with poultry, I know the temperature I'm looking for. So why not hang it and forget it until the ChefAlarm goes off at my target temperature?
Speaking of ribs, I've never cooked them before getting the PBC. The ones I just cooked seemed done at about the 1:45 mark. At that point, I sauced them and laid them on the rack for 10 minutes a side. They were just OK, in my opinion. Seemed pretty tender. Had a nice smoke ring. As I said, my wife loved them. I liked them. I didn't love them.
Can any of you recommend rib cooking techniques which involve saucing? When you sauce, do you continue to hang? Do you lay them on the grill?
I know I'm nitpicking here. Even though I say I was disappointed in my first two cooks, the product wasn't all that bad in either of them. I'm just looking for suggestions/advice to get better.
In advance, thanks for the help.
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Hi Don,
There are many people on this forum with much more experience and knowledge than I have, so I will try not to waste too much of your time... :)
First the easiest part - look up at the Flash slider with our sponsors - when it gets to Savor Spices - click. These ae fantastic and very low in salt - in fact Tim points out that you can always add salt but you can't take it out. My favorite is Mo' Rockin' Chicken - but they are all good. Funny thing, I went to dinner last night - ordered clam linguini - was SO over salted I had to ask the waitress to take it away - I assured her it was not her fault, but it WAS not edible.
The other point (and I am happy to be corrected by others on this forum) is I think you are overthinking this whole PB cooker a bit. Now, I know there are folks that like to measure ad track the temps in their cookers and even have apps on their iPhones, etc. Personally, I have never worried about that. I do use a thermometer (Thermapen) to ensure the food is cooked and safe, but I have just used my cookers for so often that I have an idea about how long things will take - I am not always right, but I AM close. That is good enough for me. One of the things I really like about the PBC is the way I can fill the basket with coals - no guessing it is level to the top. Squirt the lighter fluid (both coals and fluid are Kingsford) don't let it soak in. Put the basket in the cooker and light the coals. Wait 20 minutes (has worked for me in the summer and winter) and start cooking.
Again, I know some folks like to mess with things and experiment - one of my brothers is this way - he enjoys it and that is great. But this is not that type of cooker. The closest I have gotten to messing with it is when muebe convinced me to take a rebar out or crack the lid to crisp my wings... :)
My best advice is, set the vent to what Noah or Amber suggests - and let it go - I honestly believe you will be happy.
God luck and send some pictures of your next cook!
Cheers,
David
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We use a dual probe thermometer to watch both the temp in the PBC and the internal temp of the meat. I have my PBC a short time and have cooked ribs twice. Both times they took 3 hours hanging and then they were sauced and hung again for another half hour. You know they're done when the meat starts to pull away from the bone and a toothpick slides in easily. I suggest you search you tube with the words Pit Barrel Cooker and you'll get a lot of hits and can pick up some useful info from more than Noah. I've made a couple of turkeys and turkey drumsticks and chuck roasts as well as chicken and chicken wings. Sometimes you have to crack the lid or take out a rebar. It's trial and error in the beginning. But you get to eat your results. Have fun! BTW I loved Butch Cassidy. Just leap off the cliff, everything will be great
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Noah is a saltaholic and his rubs prove that. D-Holly is correct on Savor Spices Redneck Rubs. Also try Phils most excellent Instant Gourmet original and then call Noah and Amber and let em know what is going on, they will get ya on the right track......
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Don don't obsess over temps. There is no exact temp setting for the PBC. There are too many variables like ambient temps, charcoal load, wind, and food load.
If the basket is loaded properly with Kingsford and lit properly then you should get consistent results.
Leave the air shutter open to the setting that Noah and Amber recommend. I believe there was an actual picture of the settings floating around the forum somewhere.
I highly suggest you use the lighter fluid method when your first starting out so you can get an idea of how the cooker should perform. Once you get that down then you can move onto the charcoal starter.
Every time I have seen issues with the PBC it is usually because of the lighting procedure. Other times it has been when not using Kingsford.
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Hi Don,
As always we are available anytime and our direct cell phone is on every PBC. Please take advantage of that and give us a call as the PBC is fun simple cooker that produces amazing food and no one should ever be disappointed by the food that comes off of it.
Thank you, PBC Co. - Amber
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Don, when I first got the PBC, I was so messed up with it that Noah was almost ready to get on a plane to So-Cal to get me straightened out. Once I settled down and let the PBC do its thing (with Noah and Ambers guidance) the PBC has never dissapointed me.
I sure hope the same results are in store for you. We all sincerely want you to enjoy your PBC like we all do. :)
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The other point (and I am happy to be corrected by others on this forum) is I think you are overthinking this whole PB cooker a bit.
Agree. The PBC is not for you. You need a cooker that requires tending, monitoring and tweaking. I said in an earlier post that you should get a cheap stick burner, but I was joking a bit. You really should get a good stick burner or charcoal oven where vent settings, wood types and amounts as well as grate distances can be analyzed via multiple probes. You have a very analytical approach and the PBC just doesn't lend itself to that very well.
Years ago I had a Yoder offset that was a wonderful cooker. It took me a long time to learn to use it well and I eventually got tired of the attention it demanded. That was back before remote probes and stokers were available. It would now be a very controllable pit. Recommendation: Get yourself a good offset cooker, a stoker, and several remote reading thermometers. You'll love it (I hope) ;D
Hub
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Great advice Hub, now that I think about it, I was using an off-set at the time ( a good one from JJ Pits ) and it drove me crazy to not tweak anything on the PBC when I first got it.
It sure doesn't hurt to have a set it and forget it charcoal pit setting around though when it is too darn cold too sit by an offset all day....just sayin............
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Damn. According to Hub, the PBC isn't for me. And he waits until after I've bought one to tell me that? Maybe I should put it up on eBay
The other point (and I am happy to be corrected by others on this forum) is I think you are overthinking this whole PB cooker a bit.
Agree. The PBC is not for you. You need a cooker that requires tending, monitoring and tweaking. I said in an earlier post that you should get a cheap stick burner, but I was joking a bit. You really should get a good stick burner or charcoal oven where vent settings, wood types and amounts as well as grate distances can be analyzed via multiple probes. You have a very analytical approach and the PBC just doesn't lend itself to that very well.
Years ago I had a Yoder offset that was a wonderful cooker. It took me a long time to learn to use it well and I eventually got tired of the attention it demanded. That was back before remote probes and stokers were available. It would now be a very controllable pit. Recommendation: Get yourself a good offset cooker, a stoker, and several remote reading thermometers. You'll love it (I hope) ;D
Hub
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Don I think Hub was just trying to stress how you are overthinking this cooker. This cooker is the closest thing to a set it and forget it cooker besides my Memphis pellet grill. I have done many cooks on it and it has never failed me. The times it has was due to my error and not the cooker.
Don here is what I suggest you do...
Get the air shutter adjusted to your altitude by following the diagram that came with the instructions. You can eyeball it. It does not need to be exact.
Now grab yourself some regular Kingsford and fill the charcoal basket up to the top and level.
Apply a liberal coating of Kingsford lighter fluid onto the charcoal trying to coat the whole layer.
Now immidiately pick up the basket and place into the PBC. Then light the charcoal at four points. Set your timer for 20 minutes, leave the lid off and walk away.
After 20 minutes you should have a nice bed of hot coals. Now hang your food into the cooker and replace the lid. Follow the times that Noah suggests. Remember that they are not exact so it can be less or more but the times are a good guideline.
Once you get the hang of cooking with the PBC then you can move onto using a charcoal chimney starter IMHO.
The PBC is just a barrel with a charcoal basket, a lid, rebar, hooks, etc. There are no mechanical parts or thermostats to adjust. The air shutter stays in the same place once adjusted unless you change altitude.
All the thinking has been done all ready. Don't try and re-invent the wheel ;)
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Don I think Hub was just trying to stress how you are overthinking this cooker. This cooker is the closest thing to a set it and forget it cooker besides my Memphis pellet grill. I have done many cooks on it and it has never failed me. The times it has was due to my error and not the cooker.
Don here is what I suggest you do...
Get the air shutter adjusted to your altitude by following the diagram that came with the instructions. You can eyeball it. It does not need to be exact.
Now grab yourself some regular Kingsford and fill the charcoal basket up to the top and level.
Apply a liberal coating of Kingsford lighter fluid onto the charcoal trying to coat the whole layer.
Now immidiately pick up the basket and place into the PBC. Then light the charcoal at four points. Set your timer for 20 minutes, leave the lid off and walk away.
After 20 minutes you should have a nice bed of hot coals. Now hang your food into the cooker and replace the lid. Follow the times that Noah suggests. Remember that they are not exact so it can be less or more but the times are a good guideline.
Once you get the hang of cooking with the PBC then you can move onto using a charcoal chimney starter IMHO.
The PBC is just a barrel with a charcoal basket, a lid, rebar, hooks, etc. There are no mechanical parts or thermostats to adjust. The air shutter stays in the same place once adjusted unless you change altitude.
All the thinking has been done all ready. Don't try and re-invent the wheel ;)
You're bang on the money. I am over thinking it and, to boot, I'm thinking out loud. I've done two reasonably successful cooks on this thing: Chicken and ribs. Because neither was blow me away spectacular, I began to fret. If I'd kept quiet and kept reading, I'd have found many of the answers I've been looking for – like the desired internal temperature range. I think my problem was, I wanted perfection right out of the box. Turns out I have to keep reading and keep experimenting and stop pestering this forum with questions as soon as they pop into my mind.
And now, off to a test cook of a turkey. We've got people coming for dinner, and I've raised some expectations. I'm going to use Meathead's poultry rub (from his AmazingRibs.com site), moistened with oil. In the meantime, thanks for your input.
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Don no worries you will never be accused of asking too many questions. Everyone here is very helpful and will work with you. Just take a deep breath, relax, and enjoy yourself. Remember that we are all here because we enjoy cooking, smoking, Queing, etc. and share our results good or bad.
There are so many people here who are very successful using the PBC that you will get the results your looking for I am sure of that!
And remember Noah and Amber are available to call DIRECTLY! How many other products do you know about that offer direct contact with the owners. And they will work with you until your issues have been resolved.
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Don't you dare stop "pestering" us round here Don. We are all constantly learning this wonderful way of life called outdoor cooking. I might call myself Smokeasaurus and think I got it all figured out and then the next thing I know my Que is in the trash and I am driving to Jack in the Box ;D ;D
Come to think of it, I have never seen a PBC for sale on Craigslist or Ebay and I gotta feeling yours will never be on there :)
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Don - most of us - by our nature - are "fidgeters". Most manufacturer's satisfy that urge in us by making cooking appliances that require of to fidget with them to be successful ...BUt the PBC is designed so that someone with zero experience ( and no pre-conceived notions about the need to fidget ;) ;D ) can be successful.
Here is what many of us have gone thru: ( o.k....maybe at least you and me ;D )
We have perhaps many years of experience. So - we "know" how certain things should work. And - when we don't we get a bit nervous and feel the need to "control" the cook more.
While it seems like magic - the actual engineering and research that brought us the PBC is brilliant - and it is brilliant because it is so simple - that our "experience" can cause us to try and out-think the thing! Again - I am telling you this as an admission of my own initial experiences :D :D :D
But I can say in full confidence that - once I relaxed, watched all the videos again, and took the advice from all of the great cooks here on LTBBQ - the PBC made me better. ;)
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Don, I think that you got a lot of good advice from everyone who responded to your situation. We are all here to help one another become better at what we like to do, cook and eat! 8)
And don't think that you are pestering anyone here. We have all been flustered over something or another. Ask any question and I assure you that someone knows the answer. Sometimes there are as many ways to do things as there are responders! But I'll tell you this.....I have never seen any bad advice given here. That's a testament to all of the collective knowledge of the members here!
My advice Don would be for you to get a couple of benchmark cooks under your belt on the PBC by following the video instructions, and then add your "touch" by trial and error one tweak at a time. As Tim alluded to, a guy's gotta fidget!
Good luck and good cooking!
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Even though I don't own a Pit Barrel Cooker, I have done more than my share of cooking on a Weber Kettle, so let me chime in here just a bit.
Don, being an analytical thinker, I love knowing how things work and probably would've over-thunk using the PBC a bit myself (yes I used the word "over-thunk" :D).
I think you summed up your issue right here:
I've done two reasonably successful cooks on this thing: Chicken and ribs. Because neither was blow me away spectacular, I began to fret.
Based on your comments, I think you did have a couple of relatively successful cooks, so I don't think it's a cooker issue as much as you're just not totally happy with the flavor.
Here are a couple of suggestions:
► I noticed in another post you used a chimney starter. If, like me, you can't stand using charcoal lighter fluid, then you may need to invest in a couple of chimney starters to get enough charcoal going to fill the basket all at once. At least that way you'd be starting with the proper amount of charcoal, and you'd be up and running in the allotted 20 minutes.
There are people with super sensitive smelling that can detect even a small amount of lighter fluid, and I'm one of them. And that smell affects the flavor and could be a hindrance to enjoying an otherwise great cooker!
► I think you're on the right track with your turkey cook in regards to seasoning. Next time you do a rib cook, use the rubs/seasonings that YOU like, and then see if the flavor is more to your liking.
► Dare I say it? I know the testing was all done using Kingsford, but DON'T be afraid to try a different brand of charcoal.
I like Royal Oak briquettes much better than Kingsford, because I just think they have a cleaner smoke flavor, and they cook just as well, if not better.
If you can't find briquettes branded "Royal Oak", go to Wal-Mart and get the "Sam's Choice" or to Ace Hardware and get their "Grillmark" brand. Both are made by Royal Oak and should give equivalent results.
In the mean time, start taking some pics to share with us, and keep posting your experiences, good and bad, with this cooker. The things you learn may help someone else!
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Those are great suggestions. So, thanks!
Because of my demonstrated tendency to sweat the small stuff, for the cook I just started I'm doing a 15 lb turkey with Meathead's wet brine (equal parts of Simon & Garfunkel and rendered fat (turkey and chicken). I followed Noah's chimney starting instructions to the letter: filled the coal basket level, counted out 40 briquettes into the chimney, started it up, came back after 15 minutes, dumped those coals onto the rest of the coals in the basket, hung the turkey (with a ChefAlarm probe inserted), closed the lid and walked away. Now, of course comes the hard part – I have to stay away.
I'll post pictures regardless of the outcome
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Watching this one........
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc469/s1cott11/funny%20icons/2880905477_053dbab4cb_zps9e0658ca.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/s1cott11/media/funny%20icons/2880905477_053dbab4cb_zps9e0658ca.jpg.html)
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Results after three hours. As best as I could determine, internal temp of barrel didn't exceed 260 degrees, but that might be a measurement error. I used an instant read digital thermometer inserted into one of the rod holes. So, who knows. The result though, appears to be pretty good. Letting it rest a bit before tasting.
[attachments deleted after 6 months]
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Looks great. Would cutting that baby in half before cooking help? I don't have a PBC, so just asking
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Don, that bird looks gorgeous! I can't wait to hear how it tasted.
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Yeah Don it looks wonderful! Ahem .....I'll take one of those drumsticks, please! :P
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From the looks of THAT chicken...I have to say you have nothing to fear. ;) ;D Perfect color Don.
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That turkey looks fantastic Don!
I echo the sentiments here on this awesome board that don't ever be afraid to ask questions. Someone on here, more
likely than not, will have an answer for you and head you in the right direction to get it answered. I also tend to be over analytical at
times and when I got my first Weber Smokey Mountain I was always "chasing temperatures" for the first month or so. I listened some
sage advice on one of the other forums I belonged to at the time to just let the cooker do it's thing. Once you get the vents set on the
WSM and it reaches the temp you want it is basically set it and forget it. It sure saved me a few gray hairs! ;) As of right now I can
go out fire it up, set the vents and know basically what temp it will be cooking. I just monitor the internal temp of the meat, not the
cooker. But that comes with using it over and over again. The old saying of "Practice makes Perfect" applies to me and I am sure it will to you.
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FAIL! It was nowhere near fully cooked. Put it back on and overcooked it. Going to try again tomorrow. But first, I'm calling Amber and Noah for a lecture in how to follow instructions. I experimented. I shouldn't have. Back up plan? Cook in the oven if I can't get it right the next time. By the way, the dog pictured absolutely loved the outcome – overcooked or not. He thinks I'm a god
[attachments deleted after 6 months]
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Looks like everything turned out A-OK :P :P
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You amongst friends Don. Keep plugging away
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FAIL! It was nowhere near fully cooked.
What were the signs that it wasn't fully cooked? What was the temp reading of the turkey when you pulled it out?
The USDA relaxed the temperature guidelines on poultry a few years ago. Gone are the days of cooking poultry to 185° and having dried out bird. The new minimum temp guidelines for poultry are 165°. Seeing dark pink around the bones and joints, is very normal with modern breeds of chickens and turkeys, and especially considering the young age at which they are slaughtered.
I probe BOTH in the thickest part of the breast AND the thigh and go by the lowest reading (which is usually the breast). As long as the meat has reached 165° it's safe and I ignore any pink around the bones.
BUT it's tough convincing many people of this because for years we were told we had to cook it to 185°.
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FAIL! It was nowhere near fully cooked.
What were the signs that it wasn't fully cooked? What was the temp reading of the turkey when you pulled it out?
The USDA relaxed the temperature guidelines on poultry a few years ago. Gone are the days of cooking poultry to 185° and having dried out bird. The new minimum temp guidelines for poultry are 165°. Seeing dark pink around the bones and joints, is very normal with modern breeds of chickens and turkeys, and especially considering the young age at which they are slaughtered.
I probe BOTH in the thickest part of the breast AND the thigh and go by the lowest reading (which is usually the breast). As long as the meat has reached 165° it's safe and I ignore any pink around the bones.
BUT it's tough convincing many people of this because for years we were told we had to cook it to 185°.
If you've got 165-170 degrees at the thickest point of the thigh, you've got a done bird. Reddish coloring to the meat, especially near the bones and joints is a normal result of smoking, a chemical reaction. If the juices run clear, not bloody, its done.
Hub
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Don, I agree with Hub and Cliff and Mike and everybody else when they say that the reddish color next to the bones is normal. My chickens and turkeys are smoked on a pellet pooper and they all have that reddish color next to the bones and I take the temps way up to the 190's sometimes (when I step away for a while and kinda forget to take them off in a timely manner...happens more often than I would like to admit). Your turkey looks delicious and I think that you did everything right. Keep experimenting because those experiments taste great.
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If you've got 165-170 degrees at the thickest point of the thigh, you've got a done bird. Reddish coloring to the meat, especially near the bones and joints is a normal result of smoking, a chemical reaction. If the juices run clear, not bloody, its done.
Hub
Good point Hub. You can't forget the chemical reaction in a wood-fired, charcoal or gas cooker (I.E. the smoke ring).
One clarification I would add is that the dark pinkish reddish color around the bones is actually hemoglobin from the marrow seeping through the soft porous bones. This is because many modern breeds of poultry (both chickens and turkeys) grow so quickly and are slaughtered at such a young age that their bones aren't fully developed.
Here's are a couple articles with more details:
► From the USDA (scroll down and read sections 13, 14. 15 & 16): USDA/FSIS - Color of Meat and Poultry (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/e8dad81f-f7fc-4574-893e-bae20cf8b215/Color_of_Meat_and_Poultry.pdf?MOD=AJPERES)
►From Amazing ribs: amazingribs.com - Mythbusting when chicken is done (http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_chicken_is_done_when_juices_run_clear.html)
This is a good discussion, especially with Thanksgiving just a few days away. :)
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Keep at it Don.
Don't give up.
I put 7 hours into a good but not great boston butt yesterday.
This hobby is all about practice. There is so much knowled and experience here. Just gotta keep trying. It felt strange not to chase temps and fiddle with dampers, wonder what the barrel temp,was when I first got my PBC now after a few dozen cooks, I have it mostly sorted out, I love the freedom that the PBC offers. Drink beer watch the game, entertain guests all without obsessing about what the cooker is doing...
Barrel-On Don!!!
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My buddy in High School joined the Professional Bowlers Assc. after we graduated. I watched him bowl a 300 right handed and years later he rolled a 300 left handed much to my amazement. The next game he threw two gutter balls. He told me bowling is a sport where anyone can do it but nobody can master it.
I think Queing is kinda like bowling...... ;)
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Keep at it Don.
Don't give up.
I put 7 hours into a good but not great boston butt yesterday.
This hobby is all about practice. There is so much knowled and experience here. Just gotta keep trying. It felt strange not to chase temps and fiddle with dampers, wonder what the barrel temp,was when I first got my PBC now after a few dozen cooks, I have it mostly sorted out, I love the freedom that the PBC offers. Drink beer watch the game, entertain guests all without obsessing about what the cooker is doing...
Barrel-On Don!!!
That's what I'm talking about, this year I'm doing two turkeys, one in the BEESR, which I've done before, and the other in the PBC, my first in the PBC. Both cookers are set it and forget it cookers and I plan to indulge in some adult beverages while the birds are roasting away.
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My buddy in High School joined the Professional Bowlers Assc. after we graduated. I watched him bowl a 300 right handed and years later he rolled a 300 left handed much to my amazement. The next game he threw two gutter balls. He told me bowling is a sport where anyone can do it but nobody can master it.
I think Queing is kinda like bowling...... ;)
The only reason I like bowling is because the ball comes back to you. .☆´¯`•.¸¸. ི♥ྀ.
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My buddy in High School joined the Professional Bowlers Assc. after we graduated. I watched him bowl a 300 right handed and years later he rolled a 300 left handed much to my amazement. The next game he threw two gutter balls. He told me bowling is a sport where anyone can do it but nobody can master it.
I think Queing is kinda like bowling...... ;)
The only reason I like bowling is because the ball comes back to you. .☆´¯`•.¸¸. ི♥ྀ.
:D :D
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My buddy in High School joined the Professional Bowlers Assc. after we graduated. I watched him bowl a 300 right handed and years later he rolled a 300 left handed much to my amazement. The next game he threw two gutter balls. He told me bowling is a sport where anyone can do it but nobody can master it.
I think Queing is kinda like bowling...... ;)
The only reason I like bowling is because the ball comes back to you. .☆´¯`•.¸¸. ི♥ྀ.
(http://www.i2clipart.com/cliparts/e/e/c/6/clipart-two-thumbs-up-happy-smiley-emoticon-512x512-eec6.png)