Author Topic: Dare we say GMO?  (Read 1840 times)

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Offline Jaxon

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Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #-1 on: May 29, 2014, 07:43:21 AM »
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Offline sliding_billy

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« on: May 29, 2014, 08:42:10 AM »
He has valid points, though I still believe that GMOs are a slippery slope to tread.
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Offline muebe

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2014, 09:08:16 AM »
My worries are not so much about problems from eating GMO produce but what will nature do to fight back the modifications.

Maybe my brain works way too hard but think of the butterfly effect. So you create a crop that is completely resistant to all bugs for example. That crop is great right? It grows really well and does not need any pesticides. Ok so now those bugs are starved and wiped out. Now the birds that eat those bugs are starved. It continues and continues...

This planet only has room for so many people and nature will find a way IMHO to control the world's population.

There are more and more super bugs appearing that are resistant to all currently available antibiotics. This is not by accident! This is nature fighting back IMHO.

More people are being born each year and people are also living longer. I firmly believe that even though he earth is huge it was never meant to support all the population it currently has. And we would not have enough food if not for GMOs.

I know the good things GMOs have done but I worry about us playing God. Nature is not perfect and that is for a reason.... To keep a balance.
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Offline HighOnSmoke

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 09:13:11 AM »
My worries are not so much about problems from eating GMO produce but what will nature do to fight back the modifications.

Maybe my brain works way too hard but think of the butterfly effect. So you create a crop that is completely resistant to all bugs for example. That crop is great right? It grows really well and does not need any pesticides. Ok so now those bugs are starved and wiped out. Now the birds that eat those bugs are starved. It continues and continues...

This planet only has room for so many people and nature will find a way IMHO to control the world's population.

There are more and more super bugs appearing that are resistant to all currently available antibiotics. This is not by accident! This is nature fighting back IMHO.

More people are being born each year and people are also living longer. I firmly believe that even though he earth is huge it was never meant to support all the population it currently has. And we would not have enough food if not for GMOs.

I know the good things GMOs have done but I worry about us playing God. Nature is not perfect and that is for a reason.... To keep a balance.

Very well stated Mike!
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Offline CDN Smoker

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 09:25:30 AM »
I totally agree with you Mike.
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Offline teesquare

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 09:33:05 AM »
I typically like - and agree with Stossel. But, on this one....

Let's use wheat as but ONE example - and talk about the potentials here. ( Fasten your seat belts please ;D )

I believe MOST technologies are flawed. Imperfect.. I am not a Luddite - and I do believe in using technology - but, the flaws in my computer's operating system do not affect my personal health  ;)( other than blood pressure... ;D )  Things are flawed because we are flawed/ imperfect...Fair assessment?

GMO's are not new. Not even relatively new if we consider that wheat was one of man's first hybrid/GMO projects. Estimate range from 6 to 10,000 years ago wheat has been theorized as as a crossing of wheat grass and goose grass - doubling the number of chromosomes. This also caused the wheat grains to be larger and more robust.Industrial man has continued to cross and hybridize wheat such that it barely resembles - genetically, or via physical examination - the original wheat grass.

Here is where it gets bumpy.....

Is it a food allergy?....Or is it that our bodies were NOT designed to recognize, break down and use the artificially "enhanced" grain of current hybridized wheat. It may be analogous to eating styrofoam: Yes there may be some components that purl on an in organic chemistry examination - could be considered nutritional. But - the combination of those with the other constituents int he styrofoam make it either immediately toxic - or more insidiously....slowly depressive to immune system response, or any number of other negative health effects.

Science as a whole has become omnipotent. It has - as a community - studied "global warming" for 40 odd years - and now predicted our end via models that are admittedly flawed. ( Not one scientist could predict the 17 year lull in the warming trend that we are now experiencing :D )

So - my summation is this: Use sound judgement when considering the "food safety" of consumables that promise bigger, prettier production. Isn't the actual nutrition what we are looking for?
One last example: We ALL love red meat. We - as "modern man" domesticated oxen into what we now recognize as domesticated cattle. We are told about the cholesterol, and fats issues in red meats, and warned by our doctors - right?
Yet - nature has within it - without man's manipulation - animals such as bison, and all species of venison that have little to zero cholesterol, and the fats contain Omega 3's on the order of consuming equivalent amounts of wild caught salmon!

Yes, we need science. And - Indeed- science has done great things for us - that is irrefutably true. What I am suggesting is that perhaps due to the need to keep up with a growing population - that "agribusiness" has become so focused on feeding everyone that the compromises have created grave consequences for many. Justifiable? Perhaps if you are a stockholder in any of the big food products companies. Probably not - if you or a loved one has health problem that are linked to our "Modern American Diet"

***End Sermon***

(rock and GMO tomato chuckin' begins now ) :D
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Offline HighOnSmoke

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 09:38:36 AM »
I typically like - and agree with Stossel. But, on this one....

Let's use wheat as but ONE example - and talk about the potentials here. ( Fasten your seat belts please ;D )

I believe MOST technologies are flawed. Imperfect.. I am not a Luddite - and I do believe in using technology - but, the flaws in my computer's operating system do not affect my personal health  ;)( other than blood pressure... ;D )  Things are flawed because we are flawed/ imperfect...Fair assessment?

GMO's are not new. Not even relatively new if we consider that wheat was one of man's first hybrid/GMO projects. Estimate range from 6 to 10,000 years ago wheat has been theorized as as a crossing of wheat grass and goose grass - doubling the number of chromosomes. This also caused the wheat grains to be larger and more robust.Industrial man has continued to cross and hybridize wheat such that it barely resembles - genetically, or via physical examination - the original wheat grass.

Here is where it gets bumpy.....

Is it a food allergy?....Or is it that our bodies were NOT designed to recognize, break down and use the artificially "enhanced" grain of current hybridized wheat. It may be analogous to eating styrofoam: Yes there may be some components that purl on an in organic chemistry examination - could be considered nutritional. But - the combination of those with the other constituents int he styrofoam make it either immediately toxic - or more insidiously....slowly depressive to immune system response, or any number of other negative health effects.

Science as a whole has become omnipotent. It has - as a community - studied "global warming" for 40 odd years - and now predicted our end via models that are admittedly flawed. ( Not one scientist could predict the 17 year lull in the warming trend that we are now experiencing :D )

So - my summation is this: Use sound judgement when considering the "food safety" of consumables that promise bigger, prettier production. Isn't the actual nutrition what we are looking for?
One last example: We ALL love red meat. We - as "modern man" domesticated oxen into what we now recognize as domesticated cattle. We are told about the cholesterol, and fats issues in red meats, and warned by our doctors - right?
Yet - nature has within it - without man's manipulation - animals such as bison, and all species of venison that have little to zero cholesterol, and the fats contain Omega 3's on the order of consuming equivalent amounts of wild caught salmon!

Yes, we need science. And - Indeed- science has done great things for us - that is irrefutably true. What I am suggesting is that perhaps due to the need to keep up with a growing population - that "agribusiness" has become so focused on feeding everyone that the compromises have created grave consequences for many. Justifiable? Perhaps if you are a stockholder in any of the big food products companies. Probably not - if you or a loved one has health problem that are linked to our "Modern American Diet"

***End Sermon***

(rock and GMO tomato chuckin' begins now ) :D

^^^^^ The Professor makes sense! At least I think it does..  ;D
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Offline hikerman

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 09:52:01 AM »
Tim I agree with your perspective 100%! Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we should. I see this typically as two major agribusiness corporations trying to in their words "feed the world". In the process eventually we will not have seeds,  only they will. In the process of gigantic agribusiness our water supply is being polluted beyond repair. With no seeds, and no potable water guess who stands to "own" us?

Offline drholly

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 01:14:08 PM »
Tim, I am in synch with the spirit of your comments. However, where I differ is laying the problem at the feet of science. Science is simply a tool for trying to understand our world, as is religion, etc. It is the USE of science that can cause problems. Here I agree with Gene, "just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we should." That is not a science question, that is a question of politics, will, intent, sometimes greed, sometimes short sightedness... I believe we should use science to look at everything around us and try to understand what we see, just as I believe that (for me) faith is a valid and valuable tool. However, when it comes time to move forward, I believe we need to carefully consider the long term consequences... I remember trucks driving down the street spraying us with DDT as we played in the yard. I also remember landing in South American countries and being sprayed as I sat belted in my seat - I felt like a cucumber in the supermarket! It is what we DO with science that makes the difference.
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Offline teesquare

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 01:38:56 PM »
NO disagreement at all David!

I just did not want to sound like I feel there exists an "agenda"....However ;).... Who pays for the science is important to understand how the take away message is  "shaped" by the spokespersons, and how ultimately we as the public initially perceive and interpret that information.

Examples of the "climate change issue", and even John Stossel's opining that we are really worrying about nothing as for GMOs.

Science- and it's resultant message to us commoners ;) has clearly been confusing if not confounding. If you want a different scientific outcome to any given subject, wait 90 days. Another highly credited scientist will pop up with a contrary finding to the first one. :D :D :D
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Offline drholly

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 02:11:12 PM »
Tim,

You are right - we are NOT in disagreement. You are also right - he who pays...

My major point in my presentations is to think about the long term consequences of our decisions - we need to think DIFFERENTLY. Many decisions are made for very "sound" reasons... But, the long term impacts have consequences that were not considered. Here is a video that makes the point as eloquently as possible. It might seem to start slowly, but give it a chance...



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Offline nepas

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 02:13:29 PM »
Hmmm

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Offline teesquare

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 02:52:08 PM »
Tim,

You are right - we are NOT in disagreement. You are also right - he who pays...

My major point in my presentations is to think about the long term consequences of our decisions - we need to think DIFFERENTLY. Many decisions are made for very "sound" reasons... But, the long term impacts have consequences that were not considered. Here is a video that makes the point as eloquently as possible. It might seem to start slowly, but give it a chance...



This is why I do what I do.

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Offline spuds

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Re: Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2014, 04:25:19 PM »
My worries are not so much about problems from eating GMO produce but what will nature do to fight back the modifications.
... but I worry about us playing God. Nature is not perfect and that is for a reason.... To keep a balance.
DING DING DING!! Give the Man a Kewpie doll! Agree 100%! Though I dont want to eat it,nor do I believe somehow its ending world hunger,ask the starving millions about that. It isnt a food shortage,its a money shortage IMO.Just read an article how we should be feeding Africans nice healthy Grubs!Probably GMO ones at that.

As for food shortages r/t population,lets see what aquaponics and hydroponics can do,food grown in warehouses,greenhouses,etc in concentrated small areas....we have other answers besides Monsanto and GMO's IMO.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 04:30:49 PM by spuds »
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Offline Pappymn

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Dare we say GMO?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2014, 06:39:22 PM »


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