Let's Talk BBQ
Recipes => Recipes => Healthy Alternatives => Topic started by: LostArrow on September 06, 2014, 08:44:28 AM
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At this point in time nutrition science at best is an educated guess........at worst like witches reading signs from their caldron
Don't read too much into " News releases" of recent studies.
As Socrates said "everything in moderation , nothing in excess "
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Just remember that everyone who does research has an agenda.
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True we have a LOT to learn,and know very little.Always amazes me we think we know it all,we know so little.
To be factual studies need to be backed up by others and repeatable by others,one is useless IMO.But I do believe in repeatable research with consistent numbers done by many sources.I dont believe its all agenda,true scientists dont go into studies to prove THEIR preconceived notion,they accept what comes out without bias.A lot of honest researchers without their egos getting in their way,done without industry backing.
But staying on top of it is important,and keeping an open mind,and changing your views when more info is proffered is essential.Keeping a frozen closed mind,like we tend to do when we KNOW something,and not seeing contrary solid evidence,drives me nuts. Peoples who set their opinions in 1970 and are incapable of seeing anything else,makes me crazy,but so be it.I just cant hang with them.Professional Health organizations are the worst in that regard,their livelihoods are related to their standards as they see it.Heart assoc,Diabetic assoc are terrible in their inability to accept and admit they are wrong.
Of course,IMO,if you want to drink battery acid its your right and none of my business,its not up to me to make your health choices,its your body,your RIGHT,contrary to what many think,thats my take on it.
I think the safest diet is one thats varied,you are sure to get what you need that way.
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The thing is,research is available from the entire world,at your fingertips,from your couch.This is a major game changer,bringing knowledge thats incredibly easy to access,never been possible,ever ,before.
Now even us schmucks can access it all,mostly,what a great thing.
And I for one am loving it. 8)
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While it is possible that "all research" has an agenda.....let's not use it as an excuse to marginalize such information. I think our interests are served best by examining as much of the credible studies out there and using a rational, resonable analysis to digest such information.
We can't know too much......but we can ignore too much.
The process of tempering all of the data with reasonable reaction to it- is the time consumptive....but most valuable to us in so far as long term health is concerned.
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While it is possible that "all research" has an agenda.....let's not use it as an excuse to marginalize such information. I think our interests are served best by examining as much of the credible studies out there and using a rational, resonable analysis to digest such information.
We can't know too much......but we can ignore too much.
The process of tempering all of the data with reasonable reaction to it- is the time consumptive....but most valuable to us in so far as long term health is concerned.
The problem is that people mistakenly treat research and hypotheses as understanding and fact.
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SB,I agree to a point with what you say.But if you put 2 groups,on different diets,and the results are repeatable and come out the same in a majority of studies,I find the conclusions fairly reliable.
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SB,I agree to a point with what you say.But if you put 2 groups,on different diets,and the results are repeatable and come out the same in a majority of studies,I find the conclusions fairly reliable.
Depends on what results you are looking at. Short term, long term, weight, body fat, other measures...
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SB,I agree to a point with what you say.But if you put 2 groups,on different diets,and the results are repeatable and come out the same in a majority of studies,I find the conclusions fairly reliable.
Depends on what results you are looking at. Short term, long term, weight, body fat, other measures...
Yup,depends on the study what results they are measuring?
Its up to each of us to find validity or not from studies.Our choice? doesnt make either group right if we choose to find studies useful or not,but if not,how do you get any sort of knowledge base to make any decisions?
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I think we are agreeing. What I was saying is that people see an authoritative source (news, science, journalism) and then put their blinders on to the fact that the source may be an idiot or a salesman. People are lemmings. Yes, I am a skeptic. The fact that you use information in the proper way makes me happy. Being able to distinguish information from op ed is the key.
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Even without agendas they are studying people.
You can't cage them & only feed them "purina people chow". For 20 years.
Self reporting on diet is notoriously full of error.
Then throw in all the other variables of genetics, climate, exercise, alcohol, smoking & others and it's very hard to study.
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Just remember that everyone who does research has an agenda.
X2
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People are so different and there are so many variables that most "studies" don't really catch my attention. But any of them that say beer is good for you I am in 100% agreement :D
You got one person who smokes and drinks heavily all their life and manages to live until 90. Then you got the guy who eats right and exercises then gets cancer at 35.
No matter how much science tries to conquer our final destination the fact is Mother Nature finds a way to keep us from over populating the earth! The more science keeps us alive the more the population of the earth grows
Look you give a lab rat the equivalent of a 1000 times what a human would consume of something they are bound to get some kind of ailment.
Heck... You can die from drinking too much water!
Listen to your doctor and not a bunch of studies! Enjoy things in life in moderation.
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Listen to your doctor and not a bunch of studies! Enjoy things in life in moderation.
Yikes,worked with Dr's too long,like 40 years and many many many rate right up there with sleazy lawyers and used car salesman. I LIKE my Dr,that said he is a pill pusher and his answer to everything is another pill.Thats the majority of Dr's Ive worked with,and Ive worked with a lot.
And talk about behind the times on current knowledge,scare the livin hell out of me.Most get all their info from drug companies and medical reps selling something,and professional journals with studies paid for from industry.Thats how it is.
When you add in Dr's that will run endless uncalled for tests and procedures to enrich themselves and their buddies,they are everywhere. So far from Saints its ridiculous.From personal experience and I'll bet most folks with 40 years of the system feel the same.And have seen it too.
The goal is not to cure you,its to lessen your symptoms and keep you in the system,if they cured you,you wouldnt need them,and their very lucrative gravy trains comes to a screeching halt.Sorry,but thats what medicine is all about.
So true,esp with cancer treatments for example,you need an unconnected second opinion,and then a third! Your Dr will give you ONLY the choices he,his hospital or his buddies do,anything thing else SUX they will tell you,yup,self serving Dr's are everywhere!Im not saying go witch Dr,I am saying there is more than one way to treat illness,you need to know it and YOU,the educated patient,needs to make the decision,not someone with an economic agenda.
I got news for you.1 Mercedes is never enough,I know Drs with a car stable with Ferrari's and beach homes,helicopters!,its never enough,dont let that creep decide what best for you without realizing its whats best for HIM first,yup,that happens,always has,hysterectomies used to be the big scam until cat scans put that BS out of business.They have plenty more.
Educate YOURSELF,only YOU is looking out for YOUR best interests,then CHOOSE the options that are available,blind faith will screw you under terribly.
Yeah,its a rant,but Ive been in the system since I was a 17 year old corpsman,I dont let them pull any of that trash on my family.
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People are so different ....
. Then you got the guy who eats right and exercises then gets cancer at 35.
You got one person who smokes and drinks heavily all their life and manages to live until 90
Thats true,but its also the exception and studies will bear that out,how insurance companies can accurately insure you for life insurance and remain profitable.
Then you got the guy who eats right and exercises then gets cancer at 35
Also true,but again statistics are readily available,accurate,and will clearly show you thats an anomaly,not the rule.
Odds greatly favor you will be the average,not the exception,and thats shown by statistical data,ie,death rates and diagnosis and ages is readily available,fairly darn accurate,and over the population as a whole very prognostic.
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Sorry don't agree with you about the doctors Spuds. Sure there are some bad doctors out there. There are also bad cops too. But I don't label them all bad and appreciate they are there. My wife is a trauma nurse and knows many doctors who really care and take their job seriously. If you completed 10 years of medical schooling then you deserve the Ferrari and big home IMHO. They can spend working a 20 hour shift taking care of sick patients then get three hours sleep and then back at it for another 20 hours. There are people who make 10 times as much as a doctor and work no where near as hard.
When I was attacked by my dog a few months ago I had to go to the ER. He tore me up pretty good. The doctor treated me well and I very much appreciated his and the nurses help. They tended to my wounds and gave me advice. I was sure glad they were there to help me and could not thank them enough.
Second opinions are good. Not only with doctors but when you get your car repaired or a contractor is doing work on your home. A second opinion is always a good idea. No "good" doctor will blame you for wanting a second opinion.
And I don't believe that my examples are an anomaly. You have many people who can eat everything in the world and never gain weight and the others who gain weight very easily. There are people who are allergic to things while others are not. There are many examples of different things than what we believe is normal. We are all so different genetically that it is impossible there not be such differences. Do you have a higher risk of getting cancer when smoking for example. Sure. Do I know people who do not smoke or drink who got cancer. Yes. Do I know people who have smoked and drank all their lives and don't have cancer. Yes. I am surrounded by anomalies then.
Are prescription drugs over prescribed? Absolutely! The problem is they have created so many names for different ailments. When I was a kid my brother was hyper active. Some kids are. He grew up to be fine. If he was growing up today they would have diagnosed him with ADHD and put him on meds. But people need an answer for EVERYTHING wrong with them! They have this insanity that there needs to be a drug to fix everything.
Insurance companies charge higher to people who smoke because of higher risk. They will profit regardless. They are providing a service that you pay for but hope to never use. And they have millions of customers paying them for this service. They do run the numbers but there is also some risk on their part.
And who is keeping these statistics? The people who are smoking, drinking and don't get cancer are not running to the nearest "statistics" office to report the good news. The ones that get cancer are their numbers. And they are higher then people who don't smoke, drink etc but those people I speak of are in the shadows living their daily lives and not in this statistics number. I know what I see around me and it blows me away. People who have been very healthy all their lives getting cancer or some disease.
And you mentioned the uncalled for tests. Well the problem is that everyone is looking to sue the hospitals and that is why they have to run all these extra tests to protect themselves from litigation because they did not do everything necessary otherwise. So you can blame all the lawyers on that one!
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Sorry don't agree with you about the doctors Spuds. Sure there are some bad doctors out there. There are also bad cops too. But I don't label them all bad and appreciate they are there. My wife is a trauma nurse and knows many doctors who really care and take their job seriously. If you completed 10 years of medical schooling then you deserve the Ferrari and big home IMHO. They can spend working a 20 hour shift taking care of sick patients then get three hours sleep and then back at it for another 20 hours. There are people who make 10 times as much as a doctor and work no where near as hard.
When I was attacked by my dog a few months ago I had to go to the ER. He tore me up pretty good. The doctor treated me well and I very much appreciated his and the nurses help. They tended to my wounds and gave me advice. I was sure glad they were there to help me and could not thank them enough.
Second opinions are good. Not only with doctors but when you get your car repaired or a contractor is doing work on your home. A second opinion is always a good idea. No "good" doctor will blame you for wanting a second opinion.
And I don't believe that my examples are an anomaly. You have many people who can eat everything in the world and never gain weight and the others who gain weight very easily. There are people who are allergic to things while others are not. There are many examples of different things than what we believe is normal. We are all so different genetically that it is impossible there not be such differences. Do you have a higher risk of getting cancer when smoking for example. Sure. Do I know people who do not smoke or drink who got cancer. Yes. Do I know people who have smoked and drank all their lives and don't have cancer. Yes. I am surrounded by anomalies then.
Are prescription drugs over prescribed? Absolutely! The problem is they have created so many names for different ailments. When I was a kid my brother was hyper active. Some kids are. He grew up to be fine. If he was growing up today they would have diagnosed him with ADHD and put him on meds. But people need an answer for EVERYTHING wrong with them! They have this insanity that there needs to be a drug to fix everything.
Insurance companies charge higher to people who smoke because of higher risk. They will profit regardless. They are providing a service that you pay for but hope to never use. And they have millions of customers paying them for this service. They do run the numbers but there is also some risk on their part.
And who is keeping these statistics? The people who are smoking, drinking and don't get cancer are not running to the nearest "statistics" office to report the good news. The ones that get cancer are their numbers. And they are higher then people who don't smoke, drink etc but those people I speak of are in the shadows living their daily lives and not in this statistics number. I know what I see around me and it blows me away. People who have been very healthy all their lives getting cancer or some disease.
And you mentioned the uncalled for tests. Well the problem is that everyone is looking to sue the hospitals and that is why they have to run all these extra tests to protect themselves from litigation because they did not do everything necessary otherwise. So you can blame all the lawyers on that one!
Not all bad,but many many many are,so do your own homework and dont take it on blind faith.Thats my point,in this case its your life,not un needed car repairs,or cheated on a loan,or take endless examples where if you arent in the field they can cheat you.
Un needed test,oh yeah,come in for diabetes or whatever,your Primary Dr is a cardiologist,you NEED a heart cath,at approx 10,000 dollars,see it all the time, as an example.When its the Drs' family that just doesnt happen,nor the endless consults,its total BS. And you,I and everyone else pays for it.And not just in dollars.
There is honest money,and there is cheating the system,and far to many cheat.Or open heart surgeries on clean hearts,that happened.BIG money made on that.Bought a new sigmoidoscope,how many heart attacks got scoped,everyone that jerk could cheat.Because people trusted a thief who get this,was paying for a Rolls Royce.Honest money and dishonest money,medicine has both.
I'll bet everyone who had open heart surg there thought the Drs involved were super,a second opinion elsewhere would have prevented that,ie EDUCATED pt. who can make a truly informed decision is in your interests.They prey on the uninformed,dont let that be you or yours.
BTW,nurse education is part of our job,and pt advocacy is part of our job description,so we get passionate about protecting you,and we do,as far as we can within constraints,like Dr tells you you need a test,I know darn well has nothing to do with your condition and he runs same very lucrative test on EVERYONE regardless of diagnosis....I cant tell you that in the hospital.I have to say,thats between you and your Dr. But outside I CAN sound the alarm so you dont get cheated or hurt,and education is the key,not blind faith and taking anything you are told as gospel,do you do that elsewhere in your life,blind faith? Then dont do it with your life on the line.
Do you believe everything a loan officer or mechanic tells you? Then keep your eyes open around Drs too.Marcus Welby isnt real, in the real world you also have charlatans,frauds,incompetents, and thieves.Keep your eyes open.
Last comment on subject,I wont in future try to let folks know what happens in hospitals.And to educate ourselves.