Let's Talk BBQ
Recipes => Recipes => Poultry => Topic started by: LostArrow on November 08, 2014, 12:47:47 PM
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I'm a firm believer in brineing low fat meats. Turkey which is mainly breast benefits greatly!
This material I've posted 2 years ago but we're getting close to Thanksgiving.
* Some of this may have been covered before, and several different members have posted aspects of this information. This is an attempt to collate the information*
Cures are NOT required in brines. I always used them early in my brining trials because that is what the recipe called for. But in doing a lot of research, it’s not required. It is a cure and as such, is typically used in places where you’re worried about the Food Safety DANGER ZONE of 40°F to 140°F. You don’t have to have the cure if you’re sure of your temperatures. Keep it below 40°F. Pickling Salt will work. Don’t use other salts than Kosher (keep reading, there is more info below). You can find it, believe me, it’s in every store.
Question: What is the cook's reason to brine, anyway?
Answer: See the section on Brining Background and you’ll understand why it is something you should try.
Question: How long to brine and is there too long? Can you brine too long? Does the weight of the bird matter?
Answer: See the brine time section for recommended times. As far as the bird just follow the directions in the basic brine times and adjust if your bird is bigger. You can brine too long, so follow the recommended times, or less, never add more time.
Question: Does the strength of the brine matter (dilution factor)?
Answer: Yes, if you don’t have a high enough solution of salt to liquid, you’re just soaking. I haven’t seen a specified percentage, but the minimum I usually see is 3/4 cup of Kosher salt to 1 gal or water. The scientist out there can tell us if that’s 20% solution or not.
Question: Can you brine a frozen bird?
Answer: No. The brine and osmosis won’t be able to work on a frozen product and if you let the bird since in a salty solution longer than recommended, you’ll have a less than good quality bird – mushy and over-seasoned.
Question: Should I use a rub if I brined my bird?
Answer: You don’t have too. It will depend on the flavorings of the brine. A lot of times I do, so that the outside gets a nice flavor from the rub and the insides gets more flavors from the brine.
Question: How scared should I be brining & cooking a bird for a party of 15 if I've never brined before? In other words, how hard is it? And, is it easy to screw up?
Answer: I’ve seen you cook and you should be real scared. No, really. Okay, I’m teasing. I always recommend practicing before any large party. You may not like the particular herbs/seasonings in a particular rub. Get to know the effects and flavors of brining before your party. Remember the first time you smoked a brisket – would you feed that to your friends? Practice, but don’t tell them when you do it and see if they notice – they will.
Question: Can you brine and inject?
Answer: You don’t need to, if you’re going to inject the brine. Osmosis works for you – so you don’t have to. Now, if you want to inject your own flavorings after the brine, feel free.
Question: Should you pay attention to lowering the salt in your rub, if you use a traditional salt brine?
Answer: Good Question. Many cooks don’t realize how much salt is in everything they’re using. By using a brine, you’re adding more. As I always recommend, you’ll have to be the judge, so if you’re worried about being too “salty”, cut back the salt somewhere. Most of my rub recipes have little to no salt in them for this reason, so I can add salt as needed.
Question: Food nutritionists say honey breaks down at 160ºF,so should you wait till after you boil the brine and it cools some to add the honey?
Answer: I’m not a food nutritionist, but I haven’t notice a lack of honey taste in my Honey Brine because I put the honey in when it was too hot. I mix my brines by putting the salts and sugars into solution and bring it to a rolling boil. Then I take it off the heat and add the honey. If you want, wait until you solution cools below 160ºF before adding your honey.
Question: Can the brine be used for a second time for the same food type?
Answer: Food Safety 101 – Don’t every reuse a brine once it’s had food in it. I’m sure the food scientists out there can tell us how and when and why you might be able to, but I don’t recommend doing it. The whole issue is cross-contamination, do you want to get food poisoning? Nope, not me. If you feel you can accomplish food safety and reuse a brine, it’s all up to you.
Question: Instead of water, can I use something else, like Coca-Cola, Orange Juice, Apple Juice, Beer, Etc?
Answer: Trick question, but a good one. Yes you can substitute other liquids for the water that is the base for a brine – BUT – and this is a big but, don’t make the solution acidic. Remember that a brine uses osmosis and marinades use acid. If you make your solution acidic (like using a orange/citrus juice) you’ll actually get a mushy exterior on the meat. The reason is the length of time your brine works vs. the length of time for a marinade. You can use a little acid, but if you add too much, watch out for the effect that acid has on your meat. If you do add acid, reduce your brining time accordingly.
Question: My refrigerator isn’t big enough to hold the brine in a big bucket, what do I do?
Answer: Get another refrigerator! (Sorry, bad humor). Be creative, but remember two things: temperature and air are your enemies. Keep the temperature below 40Fº and the meat completely covered by brine. Once the solution is made, you can break it up into smaller quantities. For example, take a zip lock back, put 4 to 6 chicken breast in there and add brine to cover, close it after squeezing out the air and you’ll do fine. For turkey, I’ve see people add the brine to a larger garbage bag (clean one of course) add the turkey, seal it. Then place this inside a larger bag, incase the first one leaks. Just keep temperature and air in mind.
Question: Can I brine pork?
Answer: Since the worm that causes Trichinosis is no longer present in American pork, it is now safe enough that it doesn't have to be cooked well done. However, Jim McKinney, chef-owner of Club Grotto in Louisville, KY, couldn't convince his customers of that. "If they see pink in a pork chop, they think they're going to get sick," he says. By brining his 12-ounce pork chop for 24 hours in a mixture of kosher salt, brown sugar, fresh rosemary and juniper berries, some of the blood is drawn out and McKinney can cook it to just 140ºF degrees without hearing any complaints. "And the flavor it packs is incredible," he says. His brine is 28 percent salt and 10 percent brown sugar3.
Chapter 3 – Basic Times for Brines
How Long to Brine?
It all depends (don’t you love that answer)? The size of the item your brining, the relative strength of the brine and your individual preferences will all make a difference. I highly recommend you experiment, keep good notes and you’ll determine your own answer. Before you experiment, read the Questions and Answers chapter for some ideas and concerns about changing times and solutions.
These are “sample” times. Feel free to adjust –SLIGHTY- but remember:
If you’re worried about your first brine, go with a time in the middle of the range. If that was too salty, try lowering your time. After than, you can adjust your solution if you still think it’s too salty
Brine Time
Whole Chicken (4-5 Pounds): 8 to 12 hours
Chicken Parts: 1 1/2 hours
Chicken Breasts: 1 hour
Whole Turkey: 24 - 48 hours
Turkey Breast: 5 - 10 hours
Cornish game hens: 2 hours
Shrimp: 30 minutes
Pork chops: 12 - 24 hours
Pork Tenderloin (whole): 12 - 24 hours
Chapter 4 – Brining Recipes
Preparation:
If you’re new to brining, read all the information in the Q&A section for some of the common mistakes and concerns.
To prepare your solution, there are two methods. Remember that whatever your mixing needs to be thoroughly into solution before using.
Method 1: Cold. Dissolve salt in a cold or room temperature water, add other ingredients and mix thoroughly. All solution to set overnight. Then use.
Method 2: Heated. Mix salt, sugar and water in a pot and bring to a low/rolling boil. Take off the heat and add other flavorings. Let cool.
When brining, always use stainless steel, glass or food-grade plastic containers.
Totally submerge in solution and store in a refrigerator for the recommended time.
As a general starting point, take one gallon of water and add 3/4 cup (preferable - but you can use up to a cup) of salt (Kosher is best), 1/2 cup of sugar and then the rest is up to you. Sliced onions are nice, a few cloves of crushed garlic add a nice flavor and then there's the spices and herbs.
Simple Brine I:
½ cup Kosher salt
½ cup sugar
1 gallon water
Simple Brine II:
3/4 cup Kosher salt
3/4 cup brown sugar
1 gallon water
1/4 cup coarse black pepper
Smokin’ Okie’s Holiday Turkey Brine:
1 gallon water
1 cup coarse Kosher salt
3/4 cup soy sauce
1/2 cup white sugar
1/2 cup brown sugar
1/2 cup honey
1/2 cup apple cider vinegar
4 tablespoons black pepper
3 - 4 tablespoons chopped garlic
1 teaspoon Allspice
1 oz. Morton’s Tenderquick (optional)
Measurements “How much is an Ounce?”
2 tablespoons = ounce
6 teaspoons = ounce
Heat water/salt/sugars to rolling boil. Take off burner, add other ingredients. Allow mixture to cool before placing meat into solution.
Place 10 - 12 lb. turkey in non-reactive container and cover with brine. Refrigerate for minimum of 24 hours, preferably 48 hours.
Load smoker’s wood box with 4 oz. hickory wood.
Remove turkey from the refrigerator and discard brine. Rinse turkey three times, pat dry and lightly rub skin with mayonnaise. Apply light coating of Cookshack Spicy Chicken Rub. Place turkey in smoker and smoke cook at 200ºF for one hour per lb. I like cherry or apple wood for my turkey. Smoke until internal temperature of breast reaches 160ºF to 165ºF. Remove from smoker and allow to sit for 30 minutes before slicing.
Note: About the “optional” Tenderquick. If you smoke a turkey at temperatures of 180º to 225º F., you might want to consider using the Tenderquick. The turkey will be spending a lot of time in the DANGER ZONE of 40ºF to 140ºF, so just be aware of this. If in doubt, use the Tenderquick.
Shake’s Honey Brine & Fried turkey
1/2 gallon will do 2 turkeys; 2 oz each leg, 2 oz each thigh, 4 oz each breast.
1 gallon water
1 cup pickling salt
1 oz tender quick (2 tbsp)
1 cup honey
3 bay leaves
1/4 tsp ground cloves
1/2 tsp pickle spice
Smokin Okie’s Original Brine
1 gallon water
1 cup kosher salt
1 ounce Tenderquick
1 cup honey
3 bay leaves
1/4 teaspoon ground cloves
1/2 teaspoon pickling spices
Simple Brine III:
1 cup Kosher salt
1/2 cup molasses
1/2 cup maple syrup
1/2 cup lemon juice
1/4 cup cracked black pepper
1/4 cup crushed red peppers
2 tablespoons minced garlic
Simple Pork Brine:
1 gallon Water
1/2 cup coarse kosher salt
1/2 cup white sugar
3 bay leaves
1 whole onion, cut-up
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Here you go....
http://www.cookshack.com/Websites/cookshack/Images/2010brining101.pdf
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Ton of information here, Thank You
Big Bookmarked ;D
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Great info, thanks for posting. ;)
If the fridge ain't big enough how about brining in an ice chest with a few bags of ice covering the meat?
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Great info, thanks for posting. ;)
If the fridge ain't big enough how about brining in an ice chest with a few bags of ice covering the meat?
I like to place 2 bags ( one inside the other ) in a five gallon bucket. Then put the turkey in the bag - add the chilled brine. Twist the air out of the bag and tie it shut. Then pile on ice, and place bucket in cooler, filled with ice surrounding the bucket.
Last year I bought an Igloo water cooler like this one: http://www.homelectrical.com/igloo-5-gallon-industrial-cooler.igl-451.1.html?utm_source=Nextag&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=CSE
It works great. Just load the ice on top of the closed bag, and put the lid on the cooler. It is important to get all of the air out of the bag so that the turkey stays submerged in brine.
T
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Thanks for posting. You guys are making this holiday season makings nice and easy.
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Definitely a big thanks for posting! Bookmarked!
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I put all my dry spices in my spice ginder - to dust, and mixed with the salt and the sugar
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/BriningBag_600_zps89da756d.jpg)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/BriningBag3_zpsa0a72580.jpg)
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I like those Jack....but they are a little on the small side. I like a larger volume bag for more brine and complete immersion. May not be important, it is just how I like to do it.
Anyone know of larger "food safe" plastic bags? I have used the white kitchen size garbage bags, and think they are o.k. ( not the perfumed bags ) but would feel better with a purpose built one.
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T that's a 12# bird in a bag for a 24#er
I doubled up the neck of the bag to take up the slack
btw- the bird is breast down in the bag
why I didn't cover it in liquid, dilute the brine
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T that's a 12# bird in a bag for a 24#er
I doubled up the neck of the bag to take up the slack
btw- the bird is breast down in the bag
why I didn't cover it in liquid, dilute the brine
Got it! Well - that ought to be big enough for me! I will look those up. Thanks Jack!
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Good info L.A.!
A tip about Kosher salt:
Don’t use other salts than Kosher... You can find it, believe me, it’s in every store.
For those who don't know, there is a better type of "Kosher" salt for brining.
Pickling salt:
1) It's made for brining/pickling; it's sized to dissolve easily and measure more consistently.
2) It's less expensive than regular Kosher salt.
3) It IS a certified Kosher salt! No additives, anti-caking agents, etc. :)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4_Ezcw8WTM8/UYEUqbq5vFI/AAAAAAAAE1Q/O5Hkog59mI4/s473/PCLGSALT.JPG)
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... It IS a certified Kosher salt! No additives, anti-caking agents, etc.
Cliff -
You're absolutely correct (as most always) but you're leaving room for confusion (never a good thing around tee, dee, or me).
What we usually refer to as "kosher salt" is actually "koshering salt" because the crystal shape (flake or hollow pyramid) and size were better than other styles for absorbing blood in preparing kosher meat.
"Kosher-certified salt," however, is any salt that has been certified as usable in preparing kosher food. In theory, it can have any crystal shape or size as long as it is produced and handled according to kosher dietary requirements.
I'm guessing that on this forum (with it's preference for pork), that certification is not much of an issue.
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... It IS a certified Kosher salt! No additives, anti-caking agents, etc.
Cliff -
You're absolutely correct (as most always) but you're leaving room for confusion (never a good thing around tee, dee, or me).
What we usually refer to as "kosher salt" is actually "koshering salt" because the crystal shape (flake or hollow pyramid) and size were better than other styles for absorbing blood in preparing kosher meat.
"Kosher-certified salt," however, is any salt that has been certified as usable in preparing kosher food. In theory, it can have any crystal shape or size as long as it is produced and handled according to kosher dietary requirements.
I'm guessing that on this forum (with it's preference for pork), that certification is not much of an issue.
Mazel Tov!....y'all.... ;D
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I like those Jack....but they are a little on the small side. I like a larger volume bag for more brine and complete immersion. May not be important, it is just how I like to do it.
Anyone know of larger "food safe" plastic bags? I have used the white kitchen size garbage bags, and think they are o.k. ( not the perfumed bags ) but would feel better with a purpose built one.
I just picked up a set of these <a href="http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/brining-bag-set/?pkey=e%7CBrining%2Bbags%7C1%7Cbest%7C0%7C1%7C24%7C%7C1&cm_src=PRODUCTSEARCH||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_-NoMerchRules">brining bags</a> from Williams-Sonoma.
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I like zipper seal aspect of those LVC.
(But I think their picture is not doing their customers any favors. The bird is not submerged in the brine. I know - it is something we should all know...But will bet most folks pay more attention to pictures than words when using a product. :D )
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I was looking for some food safe buckets for brining and went to Publix and they gave me the bakery buckets. All I had to do was clean them. Man my tongue was sore. :o
[attachments deleted after 6 months]
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the brining bag from Reynolds is less than $2 and on the shelf with the aluminum foil in your local grocery store
it's important to put the bird breast side down to the bottom of the bag if you want proper brining
once the wings are submerged, you don't need to submerge the back since you're not going to eat it
and I didn't have any problem sliding this in a shelf in my fridge for the over-night brine
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/BriningBag3_zpsa0a72580.jpg)
btw- I used just PLAIN Salt (no iodine), instead of Kosher salt. and just plain white sugar in the brine
and the brine, juiciness of the meat was outstanding
I also added Mrs.Dash, tyme, & sage. which I ran through my spice grinder to dust before I added it to the salt & sugar
and I didn't boil it. I just mixed it cold (1-quart mix) and poured it in the bag with the bird. then added tap water to the level I wanted.
the brine was about 14 hours before I put the bird in the OldSmokey
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In the past I have used a food grade 5 gallon bucket and loaded it with ice, or used a smaller cooler with ice as well. There has always still been ice in the bucket when I get the turkey the next day day and a half. Usually sits in the garage to keep it cool as well, depending on the weather forecast for Philly of course.
We are doing a fried turkey but I think I am going to smoke some sea salt and use that in the brine to see if it gets a good smoky flavor inside the meat.
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In the past I have used a food grade 5 gallon bucket and loaded it with ice, or used a smaller cooler with ice as well. There has always still been ice in the bucket when I get the turkey the next day day and a half. Usually sits in the garage to keep it cool as well, depending on the weather forecast for Philly of course.
We are doing a fried turkey but I think I am going to smoke some sea salt and use that in the brine to see if it gets a good smoky flavor inside the meat.
Hi..I do the brine in a bucket or cooler method too, seeing as I have a 35º unheated garage most of the winter. I have a cooler that works also. I make a concentrated brine, just enough to melt the salt and sugar, then add the bird and top it with cold water and ice. Works for me..nice seeing how everyone else does it. Pam .☆´¯`•.¸¸. ི♥ྀ.
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I think one of our strengths here ( LTBBQ ) is that we share different methods - without the need of "ego" getting in the way. No one method is the best for everyone all of the time. It is nice to learn and expand our flexibility so that we can adapt our cooking skills to changing circumstance.
Whether it be more birthdays causing us to change something, or perhaps we are visiting our kids and find ourselves without our "old tried and true" equipment/methods - know more ways to accomplish the same or similar results is just smart.
Really good thread! In fact...I am going to move this to the Poultry section - and make it a sticky. If you have additional ideas to share - PLEASE add them to the thread.
T
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In the past I have used a food grade 5 gallon bucket and loaded it with ice, or used a smaller cooler with ice as well. There has always still been ice in the bucket when I get the turkey the next day day and a half. Usually sits in the garage to keep it cool as well, depending on the weather forecast for Philly of course.
We are doing a fried turkey but I think I am going to smoke some sea salt and use that in the brine to see if it gets a good smoky flavor inside the meat.
Hi..I do the brine in a bucket or cooler method too, seeing as I have a 35º unheated garage most of the winter. I have a cooler that works also. I make a concentrated brine, just enough to melt the salt and sugar, then add the bird and top it with cold water and ice. Works for me..nice seeing how everyone else does it. Pam .☆´¯`•.¸¸. ི♥ྀ.
Unheated garage, the only way we are able to keep everything cold for holiday meals! Sometimes 2 fridges don't have the room for everyday life, beer, and prepped foods for the holidays! :P
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I used to brine a lot, I stopped. Now I just salt any meat 1 to days in advance.
Let that salt work its way deep deep into the meat! YUM!!
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to know: Reynolds has discontinued their Easy Brining bags
but you can use their turkey Oven bags to brine in as well (2 per box)
but if you want the original brining bag (they are a little bigger)
Thank you for your inquiry regarding the availability of Reynolds® Easy Brining Bag. We are always happy to hear from our consumers.
Unfortunately due to low consumer demand, the company has decided to discontinue this product.
There is another option available to consumers whereby they may contact “MyBrands, Inc.®” which is a company that distributes products that are hard to find at the local grocer, available to consumers.
Regards,
Jim, The Reynolds Kitchens
you have to buy a minimum of 4 @ $3.83 per bag
http://mybrands.com/Brands/Reynolds/Reynolds-Easy-Brining-Bag-1ct
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/BriningBag2_zps5c83450a.jpg)
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here's a 7# bone-on turkey breast i'm brining.
i'm using one of the Reynolds Oven Bags (to-24#) to brine in.
the brine is 2/3cup salt, 1/3cup sugar, some ground spices, to 1quart water, boiled, cooled, 1quart orange juice.
a little water to bring it up to about 2.1/2qts total liquid.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/CaptJack50/BBQ/TurkeyBreastOvenBag_zps71510385.jpg)
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... It IS a certified Kosher salt! No additives, anti-caking agents, etc.
Cliff -
You're absolutely correct (as most always) but you're leaving room for confusion (never a good thing around tee, dee, or me).
What we usually refer to as "kosher salt" is actually "koshering salt" because the crystal shape (flake or hollow pyramid) and size were better than other styles for absorbing blood in preparing kosher meat.
"Kosher-certified salt," however, is any salt that has been certified as usable in preparing kosher food. In theory, it can have any crystal shape or size as long as it is produced and handled according to kosher dietary requirements.
I'm guessing that on this forum (with it's preference for pork), that certification is not much of an issue.
Paul, yes, I should clarify a little better why "Certified Kosher" is what's important for brining.
As the turtle points out, there are two purposes for Kosher Salt; It's made for "Koshering" (salting meat to draw out blood then rinsing), AND it's made to be a clean, or "pure" salt in accordance with "Kosher" dietary laws.
► Koshering process: The structure of the salt matters.
"Koshering" salt's flake structure allows it to stick to the meat, without dissolving into the meat, allowing it to be rinsed away with any blood it draws out.
► Brining: The structure of the salt does NOT matter.
Once it's dissolved, salt looses it's crystalline structure.
For brining/pickling it's the "pure" quality of the salt we are after, but not because of Kosher dietary laws. "Certified Kosher" salt is a clean salt with no additives, such as anti-caking agents (which do not dissolve) or iodine (which can affect the flavor & quality).
► One more important note: Straight tap water should really be boiled to kill pathogens and remove chlorine, then allowed to cool before using it to brine.
One advantage with pickling salt is that because it's made to dissolve easily, you can use filtered or distilled water and bypass boiling.
Hopefully this makes better sense! :)
Cliff
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(http://i59.tinypic.com/2rn9zx3.jpg)
Wish-Bone’s Brining 101 gives you a simple way to keep your turkey juicy.
Ingredients:
1 (12 to 16 lb.) turkey
2 bottles (16 oz. ea.) Wish-Bone® Italian or Robusto Italian Dressing
1 can (14.5 oz.) chicken broth
Large food-safe plastic bag or large deep non-metallic container
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excellent information, i had to come back here to prep for next week!!!!