Let's Talk BBQ
Recipes => Recipes => Rubs, mops, sauces, GRAVYS and marinades => Topic started by: jboo70 on January 25, 2014, 02:29:56 AM
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I want to do a "fruit" flavored pork shoulder and I found this at Winco. What do you guys think? Would this make a good injection for the pork? My concern is the corn syrup.
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag336/jboo70/20140123_202058_zpskxu2gcog.jpg)
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag336/jboo70/20140123_202108_zpsgdn0q8fm.jpg)
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I see marinate and sauce and think it is going to be overpowering as an injection (that it will not move through the muscle very well and will just create pockets of extreme flavor). Maybe if it were thinned out a bunch.
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1. When you say pork - do you man a pork butt? Or a thinner cut?
2.If not a butt - why not use a jacquard on it then marinade?
3. Better yet - do you have a vacuum sealer or vacuum tumbler? If so - combine 2 AND 3 for the better outcome.
Injectables are typically water thin, to keep you from redecorating the kitchen with an un-intended spray... ;D And - you would need to strain out any of the solids even if you thin it down that much…..
I think if you really wan to inject, you will be better served by communing real mango juice, and apple cider vinegar, then use some powdered heat - jalapeño or cayenne, habenero…whatever you like.
Have fun with it. Experimenting is how we learn new things - so don't be afraid to "fail"….Or - as Capt' Jack says: Our failures become soft tacos :D ( And some pretty darn good ones at that!
T
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The mango juice might act similar to pineapple juice as a tenderizer. And of course the vinegar is a tenderizer also.
As Billy and Tim stated you will need to strain & thin it.
The way we figure out if things are good is by experimentation. So I say give it a try and post your results ;)
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Keep the suggestions comming. You have stirred my creative juices. I think that I am going to thin it out with pineapple juice. I will be doing pulled pork. I'm going to do one fruity and the other savory. I wish it was next week already. If the two butts are frozen I think I better start to defrost them. Then inject and fridge for a few days and then bbq
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When I want to inject a pork butt with something on the sweet side, I use Kerns Mango or Apricot nectar.......
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Jacquard?
Tee is using big words again ???
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Jacquard?
Tee is using big words again ???
Don't worry Pappy, he doesn't even know what those big words mean ;) :D :D ;D ;D (anything past three syllables is a big word for Old Smoke) ;D
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I misspelled it - it is JACCARD...
http://www.jaccard.com/Meat-Maximizer-Meat-Tenderizer--45-Knife_p_16.html ( insert bronx cheer ) :D
Er...jboo...if you are going to use any pineapple juice - then leave the butt in the fridge for a few hours or more - boils the pineapple juice first, the n chill it back down ( preferably to 40F per food safety guidelines...yada, yada...). That will neutralize the papain. Papain is found in Papaya and Pineapple and is an enzyme that breaks down proteins - i.e. muscle fibers....It could make your meat mushy - or "mealy".
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I misspelled it - it is JACCARD...
http://www.jaccard.com/Meat-Maximizer-Meat-Tenderizer--45-Knife_p_16.html ( insert bronx cheer ) :
Does anyone use this device and does it really make a difference?
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It does if you want faster penetration of marinades on thick cuts ( chucks, 2" porterhouse, etc...)
Now - if you have a vacuum tumbler AND a jaccard you can really move flavors thru heavy cuts of eat. I also use it on boneless chicken breasts before I brine or marinade them. I will hit the breast thighs and drums on turkeys, - and so on.
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I just ordered one, cuz Tee said so.
Also, they say it reduces shrinkage ???
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I just ordered one, cuz Tee said so.
Also, they say it reduces shrinkage ???
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CAREFUL!!!!!! NOT THAT SHRINKAGE....(If you try that pappy, you will be able to pee off of the back porch an sprinkle the whole yard......at the same time....) ;D ;D ;D
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:D :D :D :D
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I just ordered one, cuz Tee said so.
Also, they say it reduces shrinkage ???
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CAREFUL!!!!!! NOT THAT SHRINKAGE....(If you try that pappy, you will be able to pee off of the back porch an sprinkle the whole yard......at the same time....) ;D ;D ;D
Tee not everyone pees off their back porch... Or hurdles smokers off them either 8)
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I decided against this and I'm glad I did. I marinated some chicken breast in it and it was NOT good. It had this weird imitation taste and just was BLAH!!!
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I would agree with smokeasaurus on this one. If you want to play with a sweet, fruitier pulled pork, play with peach or apricot nectar, or apple or white grape juice. Add some salty and savory in there. If you ever want to play with an interesting sweet and heat, add some pickled jalapeno juice to your injection, but don't let it sit too long being an acid. It adds a nice subtle hint that has people questioning, but in a good way that makes them want more.
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I wonder if the would be a good combo. Peach nectar and jalapeno juice?
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Won't hurt to give it a shot, I haven't don't that combo yet. I've been apple or white grape juice to pickled jalapeno juice. When it came to peach, I usually tied in more of a garlic flavor because I think they compliment each other well. I would start 4:1 juice to jalapeno juice, add some Worcestershire sauce, some salt, some sugar, some rub; play around and have fun with it.
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For years I have taught the concept that injections are basically to assist with moisture and to the extent that they do that they'll also assist with tenderness. Flavor from injection can be touchy. Certain ingredients in injections (even commercial ones like FAB or Butchers) will have harder to manage effects. Injecting something like a marinade (which is highly flavorful because it is supposed to "soak in" instead of be inserted) is very unpredictable.
All that being said, I also advocate experimentation and meeting your own taste goals outside of competition. Thus, give it a go and see what happens but have the number of your local Domino's Pizza outlet on speed dial should the results be inedible ::)
Hub
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I would mostly agree with Hub on this one. Injections are there to assist in moisture, but I believe, and it's my personal opinion, that you can get great flavor from injections. However if you inject it with flavors, and upon pulling the pork you mask it with loads of sauce, you defeated the purpose. Enhancers such as FAB & Butchers are true moisture retention products with slight flavor enhancements. I have no problem saying that I use Butchers If you want a fruitier flavor, add it to the sauce if using it. The pickled jalapeno juice is more of a spicy meat tenderizer.
When doing pulled pork, after injecting, I keep my butts on a cooking rack in an aluminum pan. This allows me to capture the true pork juices with the added flavors. When I pull the pork, the use a fat separator to get rid of the fat in the juice, and then dredge the pork in it's own juices. This is my personal taste preference though.
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All great input!
One area that is not discussed in a lot of detail when selecting an injection is the chemistry aspect. And - it is important. Most of us know as an example that papain is a naturally occurring enzyme found in papaya and pineapple. And - that unless you boil the pineapple juice or papaya before injecting, and chill it ( food safety) - and you inject meat that will be slow cooked...You can end up with "meat mush".
These enzymes work to break down the long chain molecules that make proteins. This causes muscle fibers to weaken and even dissolve. The result can be a mealy, mushy mess. Like over-cooked ribs - or worse.
Now - this is only one aspect of the food chemistry that can impact your choice of injections. Acidic materials, such as citrus juices, vinegars, or other low ph liquids can also change the "bite" or texture of meats you are working with. Conversely, alkaline or - high ph liquids or - powered compounds (rubs) can cause muscle tissues to "draw up" or tighten - which can lead to a tougher texture. When used in a balance manner - salty compounds ( most rubs) do not toughen the interior - but they do firm the exterior of the meat - and you see the near surface moisture coalesce on the meat's surface.
So - how do you establish good/vs bad? Complicated....with acids, how long will you cook it? The longer the meat remains in contact with acids, the higher the potential of "over-tenderizing". So, caution with the length of time you allow the meat to marinade. With papain containing liquids - always boil them to extend your marinade times ( AND CHILL THEM TO 40F or LOWER BEFORE USE). Some mixtures that contain papain are also acidic - so be aware that you may have more than one chemistry to pay attention to.
Which leads to this: Get yourself a litmus test kit from a pool supply, or invest in a ph pen ( electronic - and you will need test solutions to make sure it stays zeroed). The ph of animal flesh at slaughter is typically 7.1. It declines thereafter, ( no more oxygen saturated blood flowing thru it ) to as low as 5.5- 5.8. I begins to rise again after processing and chilling.
SO - acids - in order to affect the meat in the manner of a tenderizer - must be lower in ph than the meat you are injecting them in. Make sense? Mix your injections according to a "knowing position" - that is measure the ph of the meat you are injecting - then adjust the ph of the injection to be a little lower than that. Careful - remember that the lower the ph, the faster the injection will work at breaking down - or- tenderizing the muscle tissues.
More later.... ;)
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I should add that ALL injection materials should be chilled to a maximum of 40 F prior to use. This is a food safety recommendation.