W.O.W. Sous Vide Chicken Breasts

[TentHunteR]

OK, I can't be the only one wondering about this, so I'm going to ask.  Maybe it's just the way the pics turned out, but that chicken looks undercooked to me. I'm not talking about those dark spots; I'm seeing a pink tinge all throughout that slice.

Did you use a thermometer to check that the meat reached a minimum 165°?

I understand about pink around the bones, but these were boneless. Since myogloben starts to denature at 140° F, if taken to 165°, I wouldn't expect to see any pink in the meat.

And yes, I understand about the pasteurization temps/times.  I see the Sous vide guidelines for 1" thick boneless chicken breast are a cooking temp of 146° for a minimum 1 hour.  Yet, the turkey guidelines are up at 160°.  This just seems inconsistent and it makes me feel uneasy about these temps.


Cliff

P.S. I'm not trying to start trouble here, but seriously wondering. I am also posting some more info in the thread about Sous Vide safety.

[muebe]

Cliff the chicken will never reach a minimum of 165F when the water temp is 146F.

Sous Vide does not follow the standard rules when cooking the traditional way. So let's just say your grilling a boneless and skinless chicken breast over high heat. How long does that take? Not very long correct. Well that is the problem with traditional cooking. That breast is only exposed to high temperature for a short period so higher temps are required. Sous Vide exposes the chicken to direct thermal contact for several hours. This ensures that the chicken is completely cooked. You are only heating the water to the temperature that you would serve the chicken at. If you grilled a chicken breast over 2 hours you would end up with something that might resemble charcoal. If you cook a chicken breast in a grill at 146F over 2 hours you will get sick.

So there is a difference between thermal contact through liquid and air. I have used this example before. Take your hand and expose it in a 200F oven. How long do you think you could hold it in there for? Maybe a minute or maybe 2 if your tough. Now put your hand in 200F water! How would that feel? How long could you hold it in there? This is an example of how much faster thermal transfer and more efficient thermal transfer is. This is also the reason Sous Vide can cook at much lower temperatures.

And the chicken is not raw. It is cooked to an internal temp of 146F. That is why it has a pinkish color to it. But it has the texture of traditional cooked chicken except for being more moist and tender then any I have had before.

[TentHunteR]

Mike, please re-read my post. I was editing it while you responded.

So there is a difference between thermal contact through liquid and air.

Yes, I understand all that. Water absorbs and transfers much more energy than oil, and oil absorbs and transfers much more energy than air.

What I am questioning is the inconsistency between chicken and turkey cooking temps, etc. In both cases we're dealing with potential Salmonella. I personally would not eat chicken if not taken to 165°. Now that's me.

[muebe]

Is that for a boneless turkey breast? Is that for dark meat or white meat?

I think the guidelines are for more texture than safety. The times are for safety.

Anything over 140F cooked long enough will be safe to eat(unless it was already bad) but will it be good?

Different meats will yield different results with taste and texture depending on temp and time.

[teesquare]

I know that the USDA recommends 165F for chicken....But I also know that Sous Vide kind of bends many of the "rules" that we used to adhere to....

muebe - please expand on this...? I think there is a lot of info about Sous Vide that would be interesting to many folks here.

Maybe some good links, or....?

T

[TentHunteR]

Mike if it's purely about texture, then I guess it makes a little more sense.

My guess is that 146° is probably right on the edge of the myoglobin having fully denatured, and maybe would have if cooked longer at that temp.

Although I haven't yet used this method, I have been looking into it quite a bit (which is why I have the guidelines downloaded). I've been looking into getting one of the same units you have. If I get one, I personally plan to make an adjustment and use a minimum sous vide temp of 165° for all poultry. But again, that's me, and in reality I'm looking at this more for steaks than poultry anyway (although I can see this being great for Duck, which is harder to keep tender).


P.S. again... Just playing devil's advocate because I knew I couldn't be the only one wondering about this...

[muebe]

I would not go 165F. You might as well cook it the regular way IMHO.

You can go up to 6 Hours at 146F.

[teesquare]

Hmmm... Well - I know that for safe "holding temp" in chafing dish/cafeteria line kind of settings we see 140F as the guideline.....

[muebe]

Again the thermal transfer rate is much higher in liquid. 165F is going to cook very quickly.

You can cook at higher temps but when the results end up with a breast comparable to standard cooked then what is the advantage. Higher temps will push all the juices out of the meat. You will end up with a bag full of juice and dry meat.

People new to cooking Sous Vide and start at higher temps then say "What is the big deal?" or "The meat turned out dry"

I understand the concern. But the concept of Sous Vide is lower temps over much longer times. By changing that your results may not be what you expected.

[Wingman]

Lots of info here -
http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

[teesquare]

Again the thermal transfer rate is much higher in liquid. 165F is going to cook very quickly.

You can cook at higher temps but when the results end up with a breast comparable to standard cooked then what is the advantage. Higher temps will push all the juices out of the meat. You will end up with a bag full of juice and dry meat.

People new to cooking Sous Vide and start at higher temps then say "What is the big deal?" or "The meat turned out dry"

I understand the concern. But the concept of Sous Vide is lower temps over much longer times. By changing that your results may not be what you expected.

Good explanation Mike!
I am sure that many here want to try Sous Vide, but have always been cautious about food temps - so as not to make anyone sick.
But - the rules for Sous Vide are different and I think that offers some confusion/concern.
Thanks for your explanation -
T

[sparky]

I liked your explanation of the process w/ the water and the oven and your hand.  makes since.  the pinkness has me concerned because we have all been taught that chicken is suppose to be white after cooking it all the way thru.  and I can see how the chicken won't hit the magic chicken number of 160 when your only cooking at 142.  how do you keep the exact temp of 142 for a solid 2 hours?  one more question?  you said you could cook it for 2 hours or up to 6 hours.  how are both those times cooking going to make the texture the same? 

I like that your going all mad scientist on us.  its cool.  I have never heard of cooking like this.  it's neat.   

[muebe]

Smoked chicken is sometimes pink in color but still fine. The key has always been do the juices run clear with chicken.

Sparky the controller I use on the crock pot is a PID controller and regulates the water temp within a degree.

The texture will not be the same at 2 hours compared to 6 hours. This is a guideline. They don't recommend more than 6 hours because then the meat can become just a pile of mush as it is completely broken down.

The minimum is 2 Hours for safety. To make sure it is completely cooked and safe to eat.

I guess it just comes with experience to find the times that produce the best texture for your taste.

I can say that I really liked the texture I got so I probably would not change the time.

[cookiecdcmk]

I do not have all the good equipment to do Sous Vide, but have used the poor man approach and simply cooked it in a pot of water at 145 degrees for 3 hours.  It was a pork tenderloin and it came out with excellent flavor and texture.  My wife did not like it because it looked like boiled meat.  I do not care about the looks if it was so good.  Maybe I will try to sear it to make it look more like a grilled piece.  The whole process is an interesting approach.

[Toddler]

Cliff, 165 degrees is the shorthand, the worst-case scenario if you will.  That's the temp which sterililzes poultry instantly, so it's easiest simply to say take poultry to 165.  But sterilization can also be achieved at lower temps over a longer time.  See the graph for an explanation: