Sous Vide Newbie - need advice

[GusRobin]

So I decided to take the plunge. But need some advice.
With a limited budget should I get a cheaper sous vide cooker or get a higher end heater/temp unit (not sure what you call it) that you use on a stock pot.

Any suggestions

[Las Vegan Cajun]

Even though I own the Anova ($199) and love it, some folks with the Dorkfood ($99) have put out some really good stuff with it.  You have to decide what you can afford and go with it. 

[muebe]

get a cheap electric roaster and the Dorkfood controller
http://www.letstalkbbq.com/index.php?topic=9521.msg127962#msg127962

X2!!!

[GusRobin]

ok, so I think I have a handle (sort of) regarding the equipment I need.

But how do you know when something is done? Can't take the IT of the meat if it is sealed in a bag.

[teesquare]

That is the really neat/new/confusing part about Sous Vide, Gus: You set the temp. to the target internal temperature. And - for steaks, chops, roasts etc. the established rate is 1 hour for each inch of thickness. No need to be concerned about the IT with this method. You can't really "over-cook" it - because the temperature of the water *IS* the finished temp that you want.  The other part of this - is that you can cook the meat at 2 or more hours per inch - and the only thing you risk with a piece of meat is that if their are several muscle groups separated by silverskin or sinew or fat -  that you may dissolve those - allowing the individual muscle "clusters" within the cut of meat to separate from those areas of fats and other tissues when you take it out of the bag. This would be somewhat analogous to "fall off the bone"....but with ONE major difference ( explained below). In the event you go for extremely long cook -the fats and connective tissues will have largely dissolved, further moisturizing and tenderizing the meat - and frankly - increasing the flavor.

Yet - because the IT of the entire cut of meat has not risen above the target temperature - the muscle fibers themselves have not de-constructed, or become mealy, grainy or mushy. Pretty amazing - and absolutely the best way to do part of the cook on especially tough meats.

The actual physics of how you cook Sous Vide are different than our traditional methods. With traditional cooking - we know that we much have a much higher heat temperature int he cooking chamber than the intended target temp in the center of mass of the object we are cooking. This is because we are using radiant heat energy forced toward the center of the meat, in order to bring the IT at the center of the meat up to the temp we desire as "done".
But - with Sous Vide - you predetermine what the IT is to be, set the thermostat - drop in the bag, and allow at least 1 hour per inch...Tougher or leaner cuts - probably benefit much more form longer than that 1 hour per inch...

muebe and others will be along to correct or add to  this....

[catinatree]

That is the really neat/new/confusing part about Sous Vide, Gus: You set the temp. to the target internal temperature. And - for steaks, chops, roasts etc. the established rate is 1 hour for each inch of thickness. No need to be concerned about the IT with this method. You can't really "over-cook" it - because the temperature of the water *IS* the finished temp that you want.  The other part of this - is that you can cook the meat at 2 or more hours per inch - and the only thing you risk with a piece of meat is that if their are several muscle groups separated by silverskin or sinew or fat -  that you may dissolve those - allowing the individual muscle "clusters" within the cut of meat to separate from those areas of fats and other tissues when you take it out of the bag. This would be somewhat analogous to "fall off the bone"....but with ONE major difference ( explained below). In the event you go for extremely long cook -the fats and connective tissues will have largely dissolved, further moisturizing and tenderizing the meat - and frankly - increasing the flavor.

Yet - because the IT of the entire cut of meat has not risen above the target temperature - the muscle fibers themselves have not de-constructed, or become mealy, grainy or mushy. Pretty amazing - and absolutely the best way to do part of the cook on especially tough meats.

Well said teesquare,
It's difficult to explain, and no one wants to wast food experimenting, however I've never had a bad result using the accepted times / temperatures for the specific food, and thickness. There will always be those circumstances where you will need to make a judgement call, and based on your experience with this manner of cooking, accelerates your learning curve.
The only fine temp tuning for me has been with the "finer" cuts as with a beef fillet.

[muebe]

Tim is correct with his post.

Only a couple things to add. You won't really overcook something but if in the water bath too long it can end up complete mush. This process can take a long time with tough meats that is why you can go 72 hours with short ribs and a nice rib eye roast in just hours. It all depends on the protein, thickness, and weight.

Also the transfer of energy in liquids is different than in the air. Here is an example that makes this easy to understand....

Stick your hand in a 200F oven. Sure it is hot but it will take a while for your hand to cook due to the inefficient thermal transfer rate. I imagine you could leave it in there for a short time.

Now stick your hand in 200F water. How long can you keep it in there? Probably not long! That is because the thermal transfer rate with liquid is much faster. This is one reason that you can safely cook foods at much lower temperatures using Sous Vide.

[Las Vegan Cajun]

Tim is correct with his post.

Only a couple things to add. You won't really overcook something but if in the water bath too long it can end up complete mush. This process can take a long time with tough meats that is why you can go 72 hours with short ribs and a nice rib eye roast in just hours. It all depends on the protein, thickness, and weight.

Also the transfer of energy in liquids is different than in the air. Here is an example that makes this easy to understand....

Stick your hand in a 200F oven. Sure it is hot but it will take a while for your hand to cook due to the inefficient thermal transfer rate. I imagine you could leave it in there for a short time.

Now stick your hand in 200F water. How long can you keep it in there? Probably not long! That is because the thermal transfer rate with liquid is much faster. This is one reason that you can safely cook foods at much lower temperatures using Sous Vide.

That's the best analogy of SV cooking I have read yet, great advice. 

[spuds]

So I decided to take the plunge. But need some advice.
With a limited budget should I get a cheaper sous vide cooker or get a higher end heater/temp unit (not sure what you call it) that you use on a stock pot.

Any suggestions

OK,when I try something new I try to keep costs down in case it isnt what I thought,if a success when cheaper heads south I'll upgrade to a high quality unit.

So I went dorkfood with an older solid ceramic crockpot we had.I am astounded by how accurate the dork temp management is,and how well the crockpot equalizes the temps through out.

If budget is a concern you cant go wrong starting with a dorkfood,might even find its all you'll ever need or want,its a really fine device.

Those are my first impressions.

[LostArrow]

Gus if you have an analog crock-pot get the dorkfood.
It's a cheap way of trying.
Not everyone likes this cooking method & you will have wasted very little if you don't.

[GusRobin]

Yes I have a analog roaster and an analog crockpot. So I think like spuds, - go with a less expensive approach until I see if I like it, then upgrade as desired.

Is there a good ( free?) recipe site anyone can recommend? I'm looking for something that also lists the items and cooking times for various meats, etc.

Thanks for all your help. 

[teesquare]

I am going to set up a recipe and cook temps/times sticky just for Sous Vide at the top of the Sous Vide page. I hope we can all remember ( and remind one another ) to use that area when you cook something Sous Vide - in order to build an on-site data base that we can refer to as a reference. Any previous cooks that you have done that you remember the details of - PLEASE  - let's get this going to help ease others into a comfortable feeling about cooking Sous Vide.

And in the recipes  - I will ask an Admin to create a Sous Vide thread section.

[Wingman]

I would only add that if you have a PID temperature controller (like an Auber unit for a Bradley smoker), all you need to buy is an immersion type sensor for it.  I think I paid $12 for mine.  You can then use a crockpot to try sous vide.

[Las Vegan Cajun]

Is there a good ( free?) recipe site anyone can recommend? I'm looking for something that also lists the items and cooking times for various meats, etc.

Google Sous Vide or Sous Vide Recipes and you'll find tons of free websites that list everything you want to know.