Let's Talk BBQ
FORUM SPONSORS => Pit Barrel Cooker Co. => Topic started by: Chief Mac on March 02, 2015, 09:15:55 AM
-
First cook on the new PBC.
I tried to follow the video from PBC for chicken. I split a 7 ½ Lbs. chicken rubbed on EVO and sprinkled a little Sea salt and freshly ground pepper. I wanted to taste this without rubs and see how good this is virtually naked. Charcoal type = Kingsford Original Blue bag.
Weather was 32 deg. with some freezing rain finally warming to 34 deg. and light rain. Wind less than 2 MPH. My grill and smokers are under a roof.
Filled the charcoal basket level and removed 40 pieces to put in the chimney. Stuffed 2 sheets of newspaper under the chimney placed on the grate in the PBC and lit off. After a lot of smoke and 8 minutes later the coals did not lite. I then put the chimney on the side burner of my grill for 8 minutes and the coals lit, were poured into the charcoal basket and spread around. Waited 20 minutes for a good burn and ash then hung the chicken. Closed the lid and barrel temp was at 523 deg. - Chicken temp was 46 deg. Time: 4:01 PM. ( Picture of coal bed before hanging chicken)
CM
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/pac4mac/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1499_zpsepk0gzyp.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/pac4mac/media/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1499_zpsepk0gzyp.jpg.html)
-
Part2
4:30 PM – Barrel Temp = 323 deg. Chicken Temp = 103 deg.
5:00 PM -- Barrel Temp = 308 deg. Chicken temp = 136 deg.
5:30 PM – Barrel Temp = 236 deg. Chicken Temp = 144 deg. Why the temps drop? And Oh well be eating by 6:00. Not much smoke noticeable.
AND THEN:
5:50 PM = Barrel Temp = 140 deg. Chicken Temp= remains 144 deg. Opened the lid 2 inches to try to raise temps.
6:10 PM – Barrel Temp =149 deg. Chicken Temp = 138 deg. Food Temp verified with quick read thermometer 140 deg.
6:30 PM – Barrel Temp = 162 deg. Chicken Temp = 134 deg. Started oven in the house to 350 deg. Verified Temp 135 Deg.
Removed PBC top and noticed coals around the outer portion of the basket do not appear lit maybe 10 -15 coals. Checked bottom PBC vent no obstructions and still set to ¼ open as per factory set.
Pushed unlit coals to the center of the basket. Pulled ½ of the chicken off and placed it in the house oven. ( Picture - Remaining chicken half and some of the unburned coals as I was moving them toward the burning embers.)
CM
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/pac4mac/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1508_zpswf0hm8qf.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/pac4mac/media/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1508_zpswf0hm8qf.jpg.html)
-
Part 3
6:40 PM- Lid placed back on the PBC. Chicken Temp = 131 deg. Verified Food Temp 133 deg.
7:00 PM - Barrel Temp = 232 deg. Chicken Temp = 135 deg.
7:17 PM – Barrel Temp = 301 deg. Chicken Temp= 138 deg. (Chicken half in house oven ready at 166 deg. Rested 10 min. and carved. Wife liked taste, very moist and a little charcoal flavoring, skin not crispy.
8:00 PM – Barrel Temp = 288 deg. Chicken Temp = 156 deg. Cracked lid on PBC again to counteract barrel temp drop.
8:30 PM – Outside Temp = 32 deg. Barrel Temp= 264 deg. Chicken Temp = 165 deg. Verified temp with quick read thermometer = 166 deg.
2nd Chicken half pulled, rested 14 Min. carved and tasted. Similar taste to the 1st chicken half finished in the oven. I did not think I could get temps high enough to attempt to crisp the skin on the 2nd chicken half.
(Picture - Remaining coals after 4 hours and the 2nd chicken half after finish cooking on the PBC, just before carving.)
4 hour plus cook time. Charcoal almost depleted during this cooking time. Some of charcoal around the outer portion of the basket did not light.
Has any one else had a similar issue or experience.
Opinions or Comments ?
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/pac4mac/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1510_zpsnkv0mvnf.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/pac4mac/media/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1510_zpsnkv0mvnf.jpg.html)
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/pac4mac/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1513_zpsx49gjiyp.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/pac4mac/media/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1513_zpsx49gjiyp.jpg.html)
-
Ok now I understand why people don't want to use lighter fluid because of flavor but I really cannot stress enough to try that method when first using your PBC. Done properly the fluid burns off. I don't taste it myself.
With chicken you need a very strong bed of coals and it seems to take some practice to getting the bed right using a chimney charcoal starter. Not that it cannot be done just takes a technique to learn how to do it.
With that being said I firmly believe that people should not use the chimney method with their first cook in the PBC. Especially when cooking chicken and in extremely cold weather. The chicken juices drip onto the coal bed and that is the secret to the PBC making great chicken. If your coal bed is not strong enough the temps will drop.
It seems it takes about five or six cooks for people to get the method down right starting the charcoal that way. And it can be frustrating. If you do this for your first cook the dissappointment can be even worse IMHO.
Chicken takes me about an 1 hour and 15 minutes to finish in my experience.
-
I don't disagree with muebe, other than the "qualifier" for the methods one chooses to light the charcoal are perhaps a matter of your prior experience with charcoal.
I use chimneys - and have since long before the PBC, *BUT* I know what to expect in terms of the length of time I let them sit after lighting. ( For me - at my altitude, 15 minutes and I use newspaper rolled and placed UNDER the chimneys, then lit using a torch. ) Some prefer using the paraffin starter cubes.
There are a number of ways to achieve a good hot bed of 'coal...Try several, and find what works best for you.
I am curious about your air intake. I can't see it in the photo. Check it's position - amount of "open" - and compare to the recommendations from PBC - as a starting point.
-
Teesquare
At 6:30 PM I checked the Bottom Vent actually I should have said "Air Intake" and it had not moved from the factory setting. Matter of fact I marked the barrel and and intake panel before I started cooking so I will always have a permanent marking of the original settings.
CM
-
Gotcha....
When received my PBC originally - I was really concerned about that opening. And - if you are trying to slow down the cooking process, you can close it down a bit and check the mep impact, and adjust down further if needed.
BUT - I have not known that to be an issue for any of us. To the contrary - The temp. range we seem to all enjoy - is hotter not cooler..
SO, if anything - you may want to open the air intake shutter ( check the term...I don't remember what it is actually called :-[ ;D ) - And - either crack the lid open earlier in the cooking cycle, or leave out one of the two rebar rods, if they are not both being used during the cook.
That will increase the air flow thru the cooker, offering more oxygen tot eh charcoal, and increasing the temperature. You will cook hotter, and increase the burn efficiency of your charcoal bed. That will leave yo with fewer "old maids" and - faster cook times.
The PBC is very unique because it has made us ware of a gap in the old descriptions of cookers. We used to think of a cooker as either a "low and slow" cooker for smoking , or a grill for fast, hot cooks. (The advent of pellet grills increased the flexibility available to us in one unit. )
But - the PBC is the one cooker that I know of that was designed for cooking in between low and slow - and grilling. It has been called a "power cooker". It's simplicity can be overwhelming - if we use pre-conceived notions about how it works - based on other cookers...
Once you get comfortable with it's differences from other cookers - you will be amazed, and overjoyed with your PBC. ;)
-
From my observation of the pictures it appears that the charcoal basket is not completely full. I know you say you filled it level but from what I see in the pictures it appears to be a couple of inches of the rim of the basket showing above the top of the charcoals. If that is the case there was probably not enough charcoal in the basket. You stated that the charcoal was almost completely depleted in four hours, that tells me that the basket probably wasn't completely full. When I fill mine to the top of the rim I get a good 7-8 hours out of it if not more.
-
From my observation of the pictures it appears that the charcoal basket is not completely full. I know you say you filled it level but from what I see in the pictures it appears to be a couple of inches of the rim of the basket showing above the top of the charcoals. If that is the case there was probably not enough charcoal in the basket. You stated that the charcoal was almost completely depleted in four hours, that tells me that the basket probably wasn't completely full. When I fill mine to the top of the rim I get a good 7-8 hours out of it if not more.
[/b]
You bring up an interesting point Ralph - about the burn time...I have never gotten 7-8 hours from a full -even slightly over loaded ( 12 lbs of KBB charcoal in my basket - I load 2 large Weber charcoal chimneys for a cook...)
But - the difference my be in the actual temps we are cooking at. Lower pit temp = longer burn time. Make sense? And - that may have something to do with:
1. the airflow thru the pit
2. the altitude of the pit.
Any input guys?
Chie Mac - I am looking at your photos again, and wondering if you may be occluding the needed airflow into the pit on the intake side - by all of the foil. I can't tell from the photo - just asking...The basket is made of expanded metal to help insure good airflow thru the charcoal bed....I wonder if placing it inside a daily close fitting pan may inhibit air getting to the 'coal as needed? We know that Noah and Amber figured out that the basket needed to be smaller diameter than the interior of the pit, for more than one reason I am sure. But - was one of them for sufficient "air gap" for air circulation...?
-
The air intake shutter does not have as much of an effect on the temp.
What does is the type of charcoal, load of charcoal, how established the fire is, and the biggest difference is if a rebar is removed or lid is cracked.
I have found a 50F increase when leaving out one rebar during a cook. You can cross insert one rebar on opposite holes and it will be centered in the cooker. That is what I do. The 50F really helps with chicken.
But I believe that the combination of a less than established coal bed and a less than full bed contributed to your issues.
Always have a completely filled coal bed no matter what your cooking.
-
At my altitude ~2000' MSL I have the vent open 1/4, I use the lighter fluid method to fire up the charcoals and I let them burn for 15 minutes and place the lid on. I always fill the basket to the top of the rim with KBB and I get plenty of heat and a long lasting burn. When I did some ribs awhile back I was able to do bacon wrapped chicken wings 7 hours after firing up the charcoals for the rib cook. You can read about it by <a href="http://www.letstalkbbq.com/index.php?topic=11038.0">clicking here</a>.
-
From my observation of the pictures it appears that the charcoal basket is not completely full. I know you say you filled it level but from what I see in the pictures it appears to be a couple of inches of the rim of the basket showing above the top of the charcoals. If that is the case there was probably not enough charcoal in the basket. You stated that the charcoal was almost completely depleted in four hours, that tells me that the basket probably wasn't completely full. When I fill mine to the top of the rim I get a good 7-8 hours out of it if not more.
[/b]
You bring up an interesting point Ralph - about the burn time...I have never gotten 7-8 hours from a full -even slightly over loaded ( 12 lbs of KBB charcoal in my basket - I load 2 large Weber charcoal chimneys for a cook...)
But - the difference my be in the actual temps we are cooking at. Lower pit temp = longer burn time. Make sense? And - that may have something to do with:
1. the airflow thru the pit
2. the altitude of the pit.
Any input guys?
Chie Mac - I am looking at your photos again, and wondering if you may be occluding the needed airflow into the pit on the intake side - by all of the foil. I can't tell from the photo - just asking...The basket is made of expanded metal to help insure good airflow thru the charcoal bed....I wonder if placing it inside a daily close fitting pan may inhibit air getting to the 'coal as needed? We know that Noah and Amber figured out that the basket needed to be smaller diameter than the interior of the pit, for more than one reason I am sure. But - was one of them for sufficient "air gap" for air circulation...?
Teesquare
The aluminum is HD and it was formed around the bottom and up on the side wall somewhat. I moved it up on the side wall opposite the air intake to make sure it was no where around the opening. Also, I am sending a picture of the new type Charcoal basket.
CM
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/pac4mac/IMG_1490_zpszq694uir.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/pac4mac/media/IMG_1490_zpszq694uir.jpg.html)
-
The only difference to the new basket is rod instead of expanded metal. My new PBC cooks the same as my old one, so PBC got it right.
I so agree with Muebe about at least trying charcoal lighter fluid. I would never let that stuff near my other pits, but I am so OK with using it with the PBC.
I have used Kingsford and Royal Oak briqs in my PBC and I get a better more even hotter burn with Kingsford.
Keep that basket filled to the rim with Kingsford and make sure it is fully lit before "hanging" and closing the lid and you should be A-OK......
P.S.: I am going to move this post over to the Pit Barrel Cooker Forum Sponsor Section :)
-
Hi Chief! Don't be discouraged from this cook it just takes a little bit of getting to know your pbc and you will be very happy. As noted by Cajun your basket doesn't seem to be as full as it could be thus I agree that you need to fill it up a little more.
Also, everything that Muebe said is golden!
The pbc is the first ever smoker/grill I have ever owned and I have no clue how to use a chimney starter. I just follow the lighting using fluid video on pbc website and have never had an issue with a bad "coal start." Although, I found out the hard way when doing some drumsticks that the amt of coal you have makes a huge difference as I only used a half basket full on a recent cook. While the flavor was acceptable, the skin and overall appeal of it was not.
so, run to the store, grab another chicken, load up a full coal basket, try starting it with fluid, keep one rod out, hang the meat, and eat well!!!!
jason
-
From my observation of the pictures it appears that the charcoal basket is not completely full. I know you say you filled it level but from what I see in the pictures it appears to be a couple of inches of the rim of the basket showing above the top of the charcoals. If that is the case there was probably not enough charcoal in the basket. You stated that the charcoal was almost completely depleted in four hours, that tells me that the basket probably wasn't completely full. When I fill mine to the top of the rim I get a good 7-8 hours out of it if not more.
If you're trying for a really long cook, try stacking them all in there. You'll get a lot more in.
-
First cook on the new PBC.
I tried to follow the video from PBC for chicken. I split a 7 ½ Lbs. chicken rubbed on EVO and sprinkled a little Sea salt and freshly ground pepper. I wanted to taste this without rubs and see how good this is virtually naked. Charcoal type = Kingsford Original Blue bag.
Weather was 32 deg. with some freezing rain finally warming to 34 deg. and light rain. Wind less than 2 MPH. My grill and smokers are under a roof.
Filled the charcoal basket level and removed 40 pieces to put in the chimney. Stuffed 2 sheets of newspaper under the chimney placed on the grate in the PBC and lit off. After a lot of smoke and 8 minutes later the coals did not lite. I then put the chimney on the side burner of my grill for 8 minutes and the coals lit, were poured into the charcoal basket and spread around. Waited 20 minutes for a good burn and ash then hung the chicken. Closed the lid and barrel temp was at 523 deg. - Chicken temp was 46 deg. Time: 4:01 PM. ( Picture of coal bed before hanging chicken)
CM
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/pac4mac/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1499_zpsepk0gzyp.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/pac4mac/media/CRM49-HP%20-%20IMG_1499_zpsepk0gzyp.jpg.html)
Yeah doesn't look full. At such a high starting temp though you should have been able to have that chicken done with what you had in there in 90 minutes or less.
-
Guys
First of all I would look like to say Thanks to you all for responding to my post and providing your input. If your thoughts and ideas were not important to me I would not have posted anything to this forum. I am not discouraged and ready to to fire it up again (with Kingsford Charcoal lighter)and using your ideas to achieve success.
I will update on my next attempt.
CM
-
I have only ever used the 38-40 coals in a chimney technique, dump them in when they're mostly white, get em evenly spaced around the basket, wait 2-3 minutes and hang the food. No issues. Occasionally temps drops a little low first 20 min but a lid crack of about a 90 seconds brings it right up where it'll stay. Lighting the coals first in the chimney and then waiting another 15 min for them to light the others is not necessary in my experience. You can expect a pretty good lighting off of the 40. I think that fluid is an extra and unnecessary expense when two sheets of old recycled newspaper will do the trick.
-
I have only ever used the 38-40 coals in a chimney technique, dump them in when they're mostly white, get em evenly spaced around the basket, wait 2-3 minutes and hang the food. No issues. Occasionally temps drops a little low first 20 min but a lid crack of about a 90 seconds brings it right up where it'll stay. Lighting the coals first in the chimney and then waiting another 15 min for them to light the others is not necessary in my experience. You can expect a pretty good lighting off of the 40. I think that fluid is an extra and unnecessary expense when two sheets of old recycled newspaper will do the trick.
Paul
The way the temps looked I figured I would be ready to pull the chicken just before 6:00PM. I thought for about filing another chimney and tossing another 40 hot ones on the cooling bed. But my better half made a remark about eating before 9:00 PM and I decided to pull of 1 half and finish in the oven and work with the other half to see if I could finish on the PBC. We ate dinner at 7:15 PM and the wife really liked the taste and moist juicy texture. Since I did finish the 2nd half on the PBC and it tasted very good also, I will not call it a successful venture. But, not a failure either. And, I got to learn a few things about moving lids and temperature changes. If you want to get it hot in a hurray pull the lid half way back. :)
CM
-
I have only ever used the 38-40 coals in a chimney technique, dump them in when they're mostly white, get em evenly spaced around the basket, wait 2-3 minutes and hang the food. No issues. Occasionally temps drops a little low first 20 min but a lid crack of about a 90 seconds brings it right up where it'll stay. Lighting the coals first in the chimney and then waiting another 15 min for them to light the others is not necessary in my experience. You can expect a pretty good lighting off of the 40. I think that fluid is an extra and unnecessary expense when two sheets of old recycled newspaper will do the trick.
If I can offer a couple of things...? If you are using the LARGE Weber chimney - fill it up, even rounded over on the topAnd -truly - fill 2 of them and the both of them will fill your charcoal basket.
Second, Do not wait for the briquet to ash over white. Give 'em 15-20 minutes and NO more... then dump them in the basket.
Doing this changed the entire cooking temp curve for me in the PBC.
-
I have only ever used the 38-40 coals in a chimney technique, dump them in when they're mostly white, get em evenly spaced around the basket, wait 2-3 minutes and hang the food. No issues. Occasionally temps drops a little low first 20 min but a lid crack of about a 90 seconds brings it right up where it'll stay. Lighting the coals first in the chimney and then waiting another 15 min for them to light the others is not necessary in my experience. You can expect a pretty good lighting off of the 40. I think that fluid is an extra and unnecessary expense when two sheets of old recycled newspaper will do the trick.
If I can offer a couple of things...? If you are using the LARGE Weber chimney - fill it up, even rounded over on the topAnd -truly - fill 2 of them and the both of them will fill your charcoal basket.
Second, Do not wait for the briquet to ash over white. Give 'em 15-20 minutes and NO more... then dump them in the basket.
Doing this changed the entire cooking temp curve for me in the PBC.
tee
I have a smaller model Masterchef or something like that, my neighbor gave to me. I guess he got it at Lowe's and I think it will only hold 55-60 pieces. I am going to try the lighter fluid starting method as per Muebe and see how that works. I keep logs on all my smoking operations and I did not think the PBC would require that type of data log as my gas smoker. I am going to continue with the log for the PBC (which I was using during this first cook) to keep all these ideas and suggestions for the next and future cooks.
CM
-
Try several methods, and you will find one that you like. And, I look forward to seeing your results from logging the PBC cooks. ;)
-
If you're cooking just one bird, take the free rebar out. The extra vent opening will give you better airflow for bird cooking temp.
The bottom vent does next to nothing for dialing in temp. Top rebar vents are your keys to dialing in temps.
You might ask why? Ok, same reason that the temp will increase drastically when the lid is crack opened, air drag.
Same applies to dialing in temps on the WSMs. Use the lid vent, but I digress.
Are your thermometers accurate? If your initial temp was 523 degrees, then the drastic drop in temp is airflow issue.
Try to pat down the foil as flat as possible or get a flat pizza pan to use as an ash tray
-
If you're cooking just one bird, take the free rebar out. The extra vent opening will give you better airflow for bird cooking temp.
The bottom vent does next to nothing for dialing in temp. Top rebar vents are your keys to dialing in temps.
You might ask why? Ok, same reason that the temp will increase drastically when the lid is crack opened, air drag.
Same applies to dialing in temps on the WSMs. Use the lid vent, but I digress.
Are your thermometers accurate? If your initial temp was 523 degrees, then the drastic drop in temp is airflow issue.
Try to pat down the foil as flat as possible or get a flat pizza pan to use as an ash tray
1Bigg
Thanks for the input and ideas. I cant really answer the thermometer and temps over 500 degrees cause I never had much reason to worry about temps over 350 degrees with my smoker prior to getting the PBC. I did a calibration check on the Mavevrick a couple months back after getting longer cables and they were within 6 deg on the low side and 5 deg higher than my house oven at 350. So yes 523 could have been a bogus temp. Again thanks for the input and I am reading your 22 pages or so about the PBC and taking notes.
CM
-
I had a similar problem with a chicken awhile ago. I didn't have a full basket and used a chimney. Now fill to the brim with lighter fluid for 20 min and its worked perfectly since
-
I had a similar problem with a chicken awhile ago. I didn't have a full basket and used a chimney. Now fill to the brim with lighter fluid for 20 min and its worked perfectly since
TN
Thanks for the input, I already purchased my lighter fluid and I will stay with the lighter fluid until I get real comfortable with the entire process.
CM :)
-
I have the smaller Weber chimney starter that holds 40 briquets perfectly. I then use a Weber starter cube and let it go 15-20 minutes and then dump it on the unlit coals in the basket.
I fill the basket up to the top for every cook and then take the 40 briquets out of it to put in the chimney. I have not had any problems with my cooks doing it like that.
Good luck on your next cook.
Wayne