Let's Talk BBQ

Recipes => Recipes => Rubs, mops, sauces, GRAVYS and marinades => Topic started by: Barry CB Martin on February 18, 2013, 03:34:14 AM

Title: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Barry CB Martin on February 18, 2013, 03:34:14 AM
Hopefully the title of this post explains where I'm coming from.  So here goes...


In my experience rubs are absolutely excellent for low & slow indirect cooking...BUT are not wise for grillng over direct heat BECAUSE the spices/sugars in the rubs generally burn at the higher temps of grilling.  SO I may apply rubs during a seasoning period and, as I do with marinade, wipe off the surface as much as possible prior to direct grilling.  I will use some of the same rub ingredients in a glaze during the final stage of cooking, often just before removing from direct heat and placing in a tray off of direct heat to finish.


Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Tinnmel on February 18, 2013, 03:42:15 AM
I understand and appreciate your thought process, but I can't say I've had a problem burning spices during grilling.  I have burned some in the SRG chamber when I've been distracted and left the lid down too long, but that's a different story.
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: muebe on February 18, 2013, 07:31:40 AM
I have used rubs on steaks and chops that are grilled without any ill effects. I suppose a rub that has large pieces of sage or thyme for example might not be as suitable for grilling.

Then you need to go to the actual definition of a rub versus seasoning and that itself is debatable.

We do know however that when dealing with sugar while cooking on infrared over a longer period than grilling takes the sugar will burn. But because grilling is usually no longer than 12 minutes I don't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Hub on February 18, 2013, 08:28:37 AM
Good topic!

I think at least two variables come into play:  The main ingredients of the rub, and the method of grilling. 

As mentioned, sugars in the rub char under intense temperatures and certain ingredients or types of them may develop an unintended flavor over super high heat (e.g. garlic may turn bitter).  Because of this I don't use sugary rubs on anything I'm going to grill, but low-sugar rubs seem to work okay in most instances.  Also, I've found that the garlic in good ol' Montreal Steak doesn't go foul on the fire for some reason but if I've used fresh garlic, it'll burn and taste funny.

Another observation:  When I use my GrillGrates I can use a modest quantity of higher sugar rub.  I think this is because the GG's keep the moisture close to the surface of the meat and decrease the char effect except for right on the bars where it concentrates, of course, making those gorgeous grill marks.

There's another avoidable effect from rubs on chunks you're going to grill -- salt and MSG will sometimes create a "crust" layer on the meat and make it cook up dry and stringy on the surface.  Applying the rub no more than ten or fifteen minutes prior to grilling usually avoids this.

Finally, a workable way to avoid these problems in total is to not use rub before the cook, but sprinkle the meat lightly with some finely ground rub "dust" (a coffee grinder works well for this) immediately after it comes off the grill.

Hub 
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: smokeasaurus on February 18, 2013, 08:34:57 AM
We have usually stuck with salt and pepper and some garlic powder for grilling. Sugary rubs can burn sometimes.........older BBQ books say to season your meat after the cook like Hub pointed out....
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: RickB on February 18, 2013, 04:21:48 PM
I have to agree as a general rule. But with chicken or turkey mix rub with  a little oil or butter and place under the skin. Problen solved.
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: TMB on February 18, 2013, 06:04:29 PM
If the rub is high in sugar content I agree but rubs or seasonings like GunPowder or Awake- a -Steak  I use during the entire grilling time with no issues.

Now the pork rub I make I would not use for grilling unless it's for Kimmie  ;) then none of this matters 'cause it's got to be burnt anyway!  :D :D :D :D
Title: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: mikecorn.1 on February 18, 2013, 06:39:20 PM
If the rub is high in sugar content I agree but rubs or seasonings like GunPowder or Awake- a -Steak  I use during the entire grilling time with no issues.

Now the pork rub I make I would not use for grilling unless it's for Kimmie  ;) then none of this matters 'cause it's got to be burnt anyway!  :D :D :D :D
Lol!


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Barry CB Martin on February 18, 2013, 07:03:55 PM

Tommy is kinda making a joke about it - kinda - but my experience is the "taste buds" of the eater is really important here. I've found that spicey rubs on meat with lotsa heat are more widespread in popularit in the south and southwest, less so in the NW, MW and such.


What I find is the spices, even ground black pepper, will burn on contact with a hot cast iron pan or grates will burn, and that's hot a favorite flavor of mine...BUT in some circles, it's either preferred and/or goes unnoticed. 


thoughts?
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: drholly on February 18, 2013, 07:17:29 PM
What I find is the spices, even ground black pepper, will burn on contact with a hot cast iron pan or grates will burn, and that's hot a favorite flavor of mine...BUT in some circles, it's either preferred and/or goes unnoticed. 
thoughts?

I think it was Alton Brown who said - when grilling in a hot pan to use salt - it won't burn - it's a rock, but add other seasonings after developing the crust and lowering the heat. I've typically followed that idea when grilling or when cooking in a hot cast iron pan. When I have deviated from that maxim, typically the flavor has not been quite what I expected. Now, I am in the MW, so that might be the "problem". But, seriously, I can't imagine burning a bunch of spices or herbs at 500* plus will do anything good. My favorite steak is done in a screaming hot cast iron pan - just seasoned with salt. Then I add a compound butter as it rests - some fresh ground pepper as it is served.

Cheers,

David
Title: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Pappymn on February 18, 2013, 07:39:32 PM
What I find is the spices, even ground black pepper, will burn on contact with a hot cast iron pan or grates will burn, and that's hot a favorite flavor of mine...BUT in some circles, it's either preferred and/or goes unnoticed. 
thoughts?

I think it was Alton Brown who said - when grilling in a hot pan to use salt - it won't burn - it's a rock, but add other seasonings after developing the crust and lowering the heat. I've typically followed that idea when grilling or when cooking in a hot cast iron pan. When I have deviated from that maxim, typically the flavor has not been quite what I expected. Now, I am in the MW, so that might be the "problem". But, seriously, I can't imagine burning a bunch of spices or herbs at 500* plus will do anything good. My favorite steak is done in a screaming hot cast iron pan - just seasoned with salt. Then I add a compound butter as it rests - some fresh ground pepper as it is served.

Cheers,

David

Nailed it. Perfect method for steak IMHO.
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Tailgating is my game on February 18, 2013, 07:54:05 PM
We have usually stuck with salt and pepper and some garlic powder for grilling. Sugary rubs can burn sometimes.........older BBQ books say to season your meat after the cook like Hub pointed out....

Same here with me...same results
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Savannah Stoker Controller on February 19, 2013, 10:09:52 AM
@ Barry.
For the best steak you cooked.
What seasoning dod you use?
If you marinade, what was the marinade for the steaks?
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Barry CB Martin on February 19, 2013, 10:32:30 AM
@ Barry.
For the best steak you cooked.
What seasoning dod you use?
If you marinade, what was the marinade for the steaks?


I'm simple - as though who have met me will affirm.


I use salt only and dress the steak after - sometimes - with a clarrified butter-garlic-parsley-anchovy mix, if at all. I pepper after the cook and rarely use marinades on beef, mostly on boneless chicken breasts...


why do you ask?
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Tailgating is my game on February 19, 2013, 11:41:35 AM
From a guy that puts Ketchup on steak (not all the time ;)) I love a little garlic & pepper...but i will try it with just salt next time.
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Tailgating is my game on February 19, 2013, 11:46:44 AM
@ Barry.
For the best steak you cooked.
What seasoning dod you use?
If you marinade, what was the marinade for the steaks?


 I pepper after the cook and rarely use marinades on beef, mostly on boneless chicken breasts...


why do you ask?

Barry do you use marinades on london broil? I like italian dressing on it for around four to six hours before grilling. Some say just cook it real hot & fast!
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Barry CB Martin on February 19, 2013, 02:08:58 PM
that's just before grilling, sometimes up to several hours too. But after wards,,,other spices are welcome! BUT that's just my taste buds, of course I serve my guests what they desire....

Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 19, 2013, 09:39:27 PM
When I use rubs on meats other then chicken and MY steak. I will use a reverse sear on the meat. In other words they sit over low heat on the grill until heated through, then right before they are ready to come off. They hit the 700 degrees screaming hot searing grill to finish. The rub is then incincorporated and doesn't burn
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Ka Honu on February 19, 2013, 10:04:35 PM
The rub is then incincorporated ...

I don't speak Iowan, so I had to look this up.  It turns out that "incincorporated" is a state wherein the seasoning on a cut of meat is somewhere between incorporated and incinerated. The degree of incincorporation depends mostly on the blood-alcohol level of the cook whilst the meal is being prepared.
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 19, 2013, 10:08:16 PM
The rub is then incincorporated ...

I don't speak Iowan, so I had to look this up.  It turns out that "incincorporated" is a state wherein the seasoning on a cut of meat is somewhere between incorporated and incinerated. The degree of incincorporation depends mostly on the blood-alcohol level of the cook whilst the meal is being prepared.

Not to mention while typing
Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Barry CB Martin on February 19, 2013, 10:13:00 PM
[size=78%]Barry do you use marinades on london broil? I like italian dressing on it for around four to six hours before grilling. Some say just cook it real hot & fast![/size]




Usually in our neck-o-the-woods that term London Broil is attached to round steak...and generally don't care for that cut.  As for flank steak or the like I'm one of those guys who likes the flavor or meat and a layer on the surface of it as it's finishing, usually with a glaze, sometimes after with a sauce.... Don't care for marinades on thinner (under 2 inch) cuts of meat cause the flavor takes over the meat, not my deal.



Title: Re: Rubs - not for grilling?
Post by: Tailgating is my game on February 20, 2013, 12:06:17 AM
[size=78%]Barry do you use marinades on london broil? I like italian dressing on it for around four to six hours before grilling. Some say just cook it real hot & fast![/size]




Usually in our neck-o-the-woods that term London Broil is attached to round steak...and generally don't care for that cut.  As for flank steak or the like I'm one of those guys who likes the flavor or meat and a layer on the surface of it as it's finishing, usually with a glaze, sometimes after with a sauce.... Don't care for marinades on thinner (under 2 inch) cuts of meat cause the flavor takes over the meat, not my deal.

For me at this time it comes down to $$$$ ;) A London broil is a great way to get a really good meal out of a less expensive cut of meat. But it must be cooked just right & it comes out nice, But I really do like a sirloin, T-bone & other cuts better.