Author Topic: Pulling the skin to make bacon  (Read 5179 times)

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Offline smokendevo

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 05:51:07 PM »
It looks pretty rough, and yes you did take a good bit of the "good stuff" (fat) off, but in the end after you smoke it and it get's up to temp that rough cut will smooth right out, and once it's sliced you won't be able to tell. Each time you do it, you'll get better! :)


Out of curiosity... did you measure your ingredients to match the weight of the bacon?
I tried to weigh as close as possible. I did them in two batches. 1st one was real close to 5lb so I used TP5's instructions as close as possible and the other was just over 3lb so I went 3/4 or as close as I could

Don't worry tenpoint5's recipe has you covered, your going to like it. Hard to screw it up.

Offline TentHunteR

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2014, 06:34:46 PM »
...Out of curiosity... did you measure your ingredients to match the weight of the bacon?
I tried to weigh as close as possible. I did them in two batches. 1st one was real close to 5lb so I used TP5's instructions as close as possible and the other was just over 3lb so I went 3/4 or as close as I could

OK... that's what I was wondering about, and good judgement on your part to reduce the amount according to weight of the bacon. That's one of the differences between a brine & a dry-rub cure (dry rub cures need to follow the weight of the bacon a lot more closely).
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Offline RAD

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 06:38:24 PM »
Thanks Ten/Smoke and others. I would never have even thought of trying something like this before a site like this.
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Offline TentHunteR

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2014, 06:53:08 PM »
Thanks Ten/Smoke and others. I would never have even thought of trying something like this before a site like this.

That's what keeps me coming back; I'm always learning something new and seeing new stuff to try.
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Offline Keymaster

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 07:56:52 PM »
Nice Job Rad, I never have had to remove the skin as mine always came skinned. The guy in this video did a good job.

www.youtube.com/embed/SsdqRjI5OAE

Offline Tenpoint5

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2014, 09:29:19 AM »
There has been questions as to the amount of cure in my recipe. Yes it is higher than the recommended amounts. This is because some of the cure becomes suspended in the maple syrup, and never comes in contact with the meat.
Bacon is the Crack Cocaine of the Food World.

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Offline TentHunteR

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2014, 06:21:39 PM »
Just so people understand, I'm going to preface by stating that I'm not trying to start a debate here, but this brings up a valid concern some people might have.

There has been questions as to the amount of cure in my recipe. Yes it is higher than the recommended amounts. This is because some of the cure becomes suspended in the maple syrup, and never comes in contact with the meat.

I was unaware that this has been questioned, but since you've mentioned it, I ran the numbers and here's my take on it.


The "suspended in maple syrup" statement doesn't really make sense to me because in my mind I'm thinking Maple syrup is water soluble and ultimately becomes part of the total concentrated brine surrounding the meat.  But follow me for a minute because the Maple still factors into the weight of the mix... 

A dry-rub creates a concentrated brine and no matter what some of the cure will remain in the brine. Edit: I wonder if this is what was meant by "suspended in the maple syrup."


A valid question would be: How do you factor in the maple syrup, and what formula(s) do you use to calculate nitrite levels in a dry-brine/dry-cure recipe?  Only that can accurately show if the recipe is or isn't within recommended USDA limits.

My understanding is for Dry-Cured Bacon (or dry-rub cured), the calculation is based of the green weight of the meat at a rate of 200 ppm maximum (based on USDA processing inspectors calculations handbook - pg. 24).


Here are my calculations based on the recipe (as posted in this thread) and USDA formulas:

2 tsp Cure #1 = approx 12 grams
12 X 6.25% nitrite = 0.75 grams nitrite.

Weight of the rub ingredients = approx. 204 grams (the maple syrup is part of the weight of the ingredients).
5 lbs meat = 2268 grams
Total Weight = 2472 grams

The Math:  0.75 grams nitrite X 1,000,000 / 2472 grams  = 303 ppm.


So the questions become:

1) Is this too high; is all of the nitrite absorbed by the meat?   Maybe, but most likely not.

Edit: First, the calculation & the resulting 303 ppm assumes all of the brine stays in the bacon, which it doesn't. So at least some of the nitrite will stay suspended in the brine.

Second, the reason for the 200 ppm limit on dry-cured bacon is because of nitrosamines being created when the bacon is fried (a cancer scare which has largely been debunked).  The USDA allows as up to 625 ppm for all other dry-cured meats. 303 ppm is WELL below that amount.


Edit: One more factor to consider is MOST people using this recipe are going to do a post-cure soak to reduce salinity. This will also reduce excess nitrite that has not bonded to the meat.

If a person does feel  the 2 tsp of cure #1 in the recipe is too high, he or she could always back off to about 1.25 tsp for a 5 lb batch. That calculates to about 189 ppm which would keep it below the 200 ppm USDA limit, but still provide at least a minimum 120 ppm for a good cure.


Either way, BE SURE to adjust the amount of the mix according to the weight of the slab, like Rad did.  This is for the salt & sugar levels as well as nitrite.


Again, this is just my take on it and I'm not trying to start a debate, this is serious inquiry so we can all understand this better.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 08:02:11 AM by TentHunteR »
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Offline Tenpoint5

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2014, 07:41:17 PM »
Well your in LUCK! I don't do the DEBATE thing either. As I have mentioned many many times. This IS NOT my recipe. It was given to me and them was the instructions. The answer I gave above was the answer that was given to me by 2 different people when I questioned the amount of cure in the recipe myself. I generally use as close to a 5lb slab as I can get when I make mine. Therefore I have no desire to dispute your math, I'm too old to fight anymore! I'll just shoot Ya from where I'm sitting ;D
Bacon is the Crack Cocaine of the Food World.

Be careful about calling yourself and EXPERT! An ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure!


Offline TentHunteR

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2014, 11:06:06 AM »
As I have mentioned many many times. This IS NOT my recipe.

Ahhh, I'm glad you clarified that! I removed any reference in my post to it being "your recipe." :)   I also had more time this morning so I edited a couple of points to clarify what I was getting at.

To be honest I would never have given it a second thought except that your comment above made me curious as to if the amount was high. I'm still not totally convinced it's really all that high for a dry-rub cure.


Oh and...
I'm too old to fight anymore! I'll just shoot Ya from where I'm sitting ;D

I hope your aim is off... REAL OFF...  I don't run as fast as I used to!  :D
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Offline teesquare

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2014, 09:21:03 PM »
This is a great discussion thread guys. And - with the focus clearly on food safety, I am asking if Cliff and Chris will put together a sticky post that explains the math , and how to correctly measure and use the correct amount of cure.

And - if you can, consider that in some areas of the country - all that is available is Insta-Cure.  SO - if it is possible, explain the differences, and how to make sure we are using the correct amount of each one in our bacon.

As well - please explain the difference in curing bacon vs hams, etc whee those exist. This could include time of curing as well as weights/volume/percentages of curing salts...
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Offline RAD

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2014, 06:46:08 AM »
This is a great discussion thread guys. And - with the focus clearly on food safety, I am asking if Cliff and Chris will put together a sticky post that explains the math , and how to correctly measure and use the correct amount of cure.

And - if you can, consider that in some areas of the country - all that is available is Insta-Cure.  SO - if it is possible, explain the differences, and how to make sure we are using the correct amount of each one in our bacon.

As well - please explain the difference in curing bacon vs hams, etc whee those exist. This could include time of curing as well as weights/volume/percentages of curing salts...
That would be great. For someone like me this is all new and I really enjoy trying new things but not at the risk of the health of the ones I am feeding. I did my best to follow the instructions as close as I could and if I understand the proper way of using the cure the better I can be at doing new stuff like this.

Thanks for the great and friendly debate so fat, it has been very enlightening for me.

And I have been turning the bacon everyday so far.
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Offline TentHunteR

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2014, 07:58:41 AM »
I think that's a great idea Tee.

Quote from: RAD
if I understand the proper way of using the cure the better I can be at doing new stuff like this.
Very well put!!!  :)


And just so there's no confusion, and to assuage any possible fears... 

Don't let the posts above cause you to worry any about your bacon having too much nitrite.

To be clear, my point was NOT to dissuade anyone from using this particular recipe. In fact it was quite the opposite. My point was this;

IF a person feels that the amount of nitrite is too high... then by all means, reduce the amount of Cure #1 like I mention above and continue using the recipe.

This recipe has become quite popular and has been used countless times. The only harm I'm aware that it has caused anyone is to their waistline! :)


Cliff
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Offline RAD

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2014, 07:06:01 PM »
Just pulled, rinsed, pat dried and in the fried to air dry for a good smoke tomorrow. Getting real close.


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Offline CDN Smoker

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2014, 07:26:02 PM »
► 3:48► 3:48

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Offline TentHunteR

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Re: Pulling the skin to make bacon
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2014, 07:29:25 PM »
Looking good, watching & waiting!
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