Tonight on BBQ Central Radio: Myth-busting Meat Resting

[PatioDaddio]

Above all else, Craig is a showman who likes attention, controversy produces attention. He's not wrong, not saying that...just saying his scientific approach is, at times, suspect. He cites ancedotal references without providing more specific reference points (maybe I didn't see them) and I'm not really impressed with his "body" of work.  As I said - I truly appreciate his POV and his passion and his recipes and techniques, advice on methods, etc. good stuff.


an example - I don't like that he redefines the food temperature standards to suit his tastes, rather than indicate his adjustments to the established standards as his desired or recommended...he causes confusion for those new to cooking. (He's the authority who produced temp guidelines for Grill Grates) As to his testing criteria, fortunately I have been exposed to some of the comprehensive efforts undertaken by Cornell and MIT trained scientists responsible for white papers on dehydration of food vis-a-vis a certain outdoor grill mfg I had some association with ... and have a sense of understanding of just how difficult it is to set up scientific standards for a food test. He doesn't appear to have done the exhaustive work to truly establish credibility for his findings.


And with all due respect to his 'science for hire' - it is, exactly that. Science for hire.


Is it interesting? do I concur that all moisture is not retained and there is some loss? and do I pose a reasonable explanation for how muscle fibers actually expell and abosorb moisture in an uncooked and cooked state?  Yes - I think so. And I haven't discounted his position, just suggest it's - per usual - headline grabbing and designed to invigorate his web site traffic. Thass all...he's an excellent businessman.

Thanks for the explanation. Please let me know when your research on the topic is available and I'll check it out. 

By the way, Houghton-Mifflin is publishing Craig's book about these types of myth-busting topics I believe later this year. They don't give publishing contracts to chimps.

John

[mikecorn.1]

Above all else, Craig is a showman who likes attention, controversy produces attention. He's not wrong, not saying that...just saying his scientific approach is, at times, suspect. He cites ancedotal references without providing more specific reference points (maybe I didn't see them) and I'm not really impressed with his "body" of work.  As I said - I truly appreciate his POV and his passion and his recipes and techniques, advice on methods, etc. good stuff.


an example - I don't like that he redefines the food temperature standards to suit his tastes, rather than indicate his adjustments to the established standards as his desired or recommended...he causes confusion for those new to cooking. (He's the authority who produced temp guidelines for Grill Grates) As to his testing criteria, fortunately I have been exposed to some of the comprehensive efforts undertaken by Cornell and MIT trained scientists responsible for white papers on dehydration of food vis-a-vis a certain outdoor grill mfg I had some association with ... and have a sense of understanding of just how difficult it is to set up scientific standards for a food test. He doesn't appear to have done the exhaustive work to truly establish credibility for his findings.


And with all due respect to his 'science for hire' - it is, exactly that. Science for hire.


Is it interesting? do I concur that all moisture is not retained and there is some loss? and do I pose a reasonable explanation for how muscle fibers actually expell and abosorb moisture in an uncooked and cooked state?  Yes - I think so. And I haven't discounted his position, just suggest it's - per usual - headline grabbing and designed to invigorate his web site traffic. Thass all...he's an excellent businessman.

Thanks for the explanation. Please let me know when your research on the topic is available and I'll check it out. 

By the way, Houghton-Mifflin is publishing Craig's book about these types of myth-busting topics I believe later this year. They don't give publishing contracts to chimps.

John

Yes they do. Look what I found.
Needed to lighten things up here a bit.


Now back to work for me.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[smokeasaurus]

Monkey-Business....whoodathunkit? 

[Barry CB Martin]

I apologize if I sounded snarky. Craig is a great guy and I have promoted his site and recipes many times. If I was outta line questioning his results and it sounded snarky - please excuse the tonality of my writing, it was not an intended voice.  I do suspect one-source research and unfortunately I am not able to show white papers I cite as they were prepared by certified testing labs for internal use of my client. They were about moiture content in pre-cooked and post-cooked food and I can only comment my understanding is that to perform unimpeachable and consistent food testing for moisture requires stingent and exacting criteria, multiple consistent samples over measured periods of time and in controlled cooking situations.  From what I read in his post these did not appear to be the circumstances of the research.  But then I may not have read it thoroughly and completely. mea culpa


By the way John. If you like, you can buy my books here

[Ka Honu]

Man up & stand your ground, CB; I can almost cook on the flames! (and what's wrong with "snarky?")

[Barry CB Martin]

I do when I give a rats tuckuss....this is so not important in the big picture of today...

[PatioDaddio]

We're all adults here and we're entitled to our own opinions.

Keep your hands and feet inside the forum at all times. 

John

[teesquare]

We're all adults here and we're entitled to our own opinions.

Keep your hands and feet inside the forum at all times. 

John

To wit:

I believe Barry posted an interesting "premise from Craig ( and Barry was in agreement with him ) on the question of the value of marinating meat.

If you look at that thread John ( it is in the Welcome to the Cookout section - top of index page) you will find my ( thread killing ) response.....

We can all opine on a topic  with supportive science - if we occlude other connective issues and conditions. I think this may be the case with this topic as well. Doesn't mean that Craig is wrong. But it only means that he is "conditionally" right. The same is true of virtually every cooking experience. And - as soon as we convince ourselves otherwise....we turn out a food that is "off " or sub-standard from our usual - fully expected quality product. Happens to everyone. Why? - Because we relied on "conditional" data - and overlooked other influencing factors that we had either ignored, or - thought were of negligible consequence.

Result: that "tried and true" cut of meat can become our "Waterloo steak" - (Sorry for the semi-obscure Napoleonic reference )

Ain't debatin'...just translatin'!

[Barry CB Martin]

Did a little more investigation on the subject and turns out a couple of respected authorities have some thoughts on the subject. Here's one from The Food Lab:


Give That Theory a Rest
So why does an un-rested steak expel more juices than a rested one? Turns out that it all has to do with temperature
We already know that the width of the muscle fibers is directly related to the temperature to which it is cooked, and to a degree, this change in shape is irreversible. A piece of meat that is cooked to 180°F (82.2°C)will never be able to hold on to as much liquid as it could in its raw state. But once that meat has cooled slightly, its structure relaxes—the muscle fibers widen up slightly again, and it's this small change in shape that makes all the difference.

This image shows six steaks of identical thickness that were all cooked to an internal temperature of 125°F. I sliced one steak open every 2.5 minutes and placed it on a plate to collect any juices that leaked out.

Here's what's going on:

• After No Resting: The meat around the exterior of the steak (the parts that were closest to the pan) are well over 200°F (93.3°C). At this temperature range, they are pinched tightly shut, preventing them from holding on to any moisture. The center of the steak is at 125°F. While it can hold on to some of its juices at this temperature, cutting the meat fibers open is like slitting the side of a soda bottle: some juice might stay in there (mostly through surface tension), but liquid is going to spill.

• After 5 Minutes of Resting: The outermost layers of meat are down to around 145°F (62.8°C) and the center of the steak is still at 125°F. At this stage, the muscle fibers have relaxed a bit, stretching open a little wider. This stretching motion creates a pressure differential between the center of the muscle fiber and the ends, pulling some of the liquid out from the middle towards the edges. As a result, there is less liquid in the center of the steak. Cut it open now, and some of the liquid will still spill out, but far less than before.

• After 10 Minutes of Resting: The edges of the steak have cooled all the way down to around 125°F, allowing them to suck up even more liquid from the center of the steak. What's more, the center of the steak has by this time cooled down to around 120°F, causing it to widen slightly. Cut the meat open at this stage, and the liquid will be so evenly and thinly distributed throughout the steak that surface tension is enough to keep it from spilling out on the plate.

• [The difference is dramatic. Just take a look at these two steaks:

In the steak on the left, all those delicious succulent juices are all over the plate. In the steak on the right, everything stays inside, right where it belongs.

But wait a minute—how do we know that those juices really are staying inside the rested steaks? Is it not possible that in the ten minutes that I've allowed it to rest that the liquid hasn't simply evaporated, leaving me with a steak that is equally un-moist?

To prove this is not the case, all you need to do is weigh the steaks before and after cooking. Aside from a minimal amount of weight loss due to rendered fat, the vast majority of weight loss comes from juices that are forced out of the meat. The steak loses around 13 percent of its weight just during cooking. Cut it open immediately, and you lose an additional nine percent. But allow it to rest, and you can minimize this weight loss down to around an additional two percent.


Larger Meats
So that's all well and good for steaks, but what about for larger cuts of meat, say a whole roasted pork loin, or a prime rib? Well, the same principles apply here too. the main difference is they need to rest for longer. How long? Well there are various rules of thumb: five minutes per inch of thickness, ten minutes per pound, half of the total cooking time, etc.
By far the easiest and most foolproof way to test if your meat has rested long enough is the same way you can tell if your meat is cooked properly: with a thermometer.


Ideally, no matter how well-done you've cooked your meat, you want to allow it to cool down until the very center has reached 120°F (49°C). At this stage, the muscle fibers have relaxed enough that you should have no problem with losing juices. As shown in the graph, In a 1.5-inch-thick steak, this translates to around 10 minutes. For a prime rib, this may take as long as 45 minutes.

Congratulations: Your meat is now seven percent more delicious!
Full post:  http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/how-to-have-juicy-meats-steaks-the-food-lab-the-importance-of-resting-grilling.html
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt is the Chief Creative Officer of Serious Eats where he likes to explore the science of home cooking in his weekly column The Food Lab.

[muebe]

And what about the steam people? Hot meat + carving = steam = moisture loss

[drholly]

Very interesting article. The psychologist in me would like to conduct a side study to (albeit qualitatively) examine percieved flavor / "jucieness" with people tasting each of these at the various times. Is there a temp that allows the best flavor and moistness to be percieved? We've all seen commercials with the steak being presented on a metal plate screaming hot and juices streaming... I've always wondered if there is a "ideal" temp to maximize flavor.

David

[PatioDaddio]

You can catch the podcast starting tomorrow.

John

For those who missed the live show, here's the podcast.

John

[teesquare]

Very interesting article. The psychologist in me would like to conduct a side study to (albeit qualitatively) examine percieved flavor / "jucieness" with people tasting each of these at the various times. Is there a temp that allows the best flavor and moistness to be percieved? We've all seen commercials with the steak being presented on a metal plate screaming hot and juices streaming... I've always wondered if there is a "ideal" temp to maximize flavor.

David

Really good questions David, but you mentioned something that I think has more merit than we may first believe : the steak being presented on a metal plate screaming hot and juices streaming

As the Barry has said: "The eye takes the first bite" - but I think we have to give credence to the ears, and the nose for their contributions to the total impression of the item on the plate.

[smokeasaurus]

Remember when things were simple, we just cooked meat and then ate it......      seems such a long time ago.......

[teesquare]

Remember when things were simple, we just cooked meat and then ate it......      seems such a long time ago.......

Yeah...sometimes I miss the "Alley Oop" days myself.....Ugh...scratch.....